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Friends and Training Partners= MMA Problem?   [View Full Version]
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the_Advocate » Posted 4/6/07 3:08:00PM

are we missing some great fights due to fighters alliances and unwillingness to fight such allies?

ie.. jardine/ evans....silva/ filiho...tito/ chuck(older example)..yeah it was a one sided unwillingness....what if hendo and lindland were the top dogs at MWT...would they fight?

It's a sticky situation....what y'all think?...should fighters get over it and fight or do ya think it makes sense?

fullerene » Posted 5/31/07 3:28:00PM

Really good question--one I've thought about before. For my answer I wouldn't consider guys like Chuck and Tito to be friends because they worked out for a period of time and then went their separate ways for many years, but situations like Jardine/Evans or Silva/Shogun would be applicable.

I think that if the champ and the clear #1 contender are friends they have to be professional and fight. It's what they decided to do with their careers and it's what the fans and promoters demand to see. Any replacement fighter would be seen as a less desirable matchup.

In any other situation I'd prefer not to see teammates or long-time friends fight.. When it happens in any combat sport--from wrestling to MMA to kickboxing--it usually results in boring matches. A small part of it might be losing the killer instinct, but a bigger part is that each guy knows the other guys' strengths from years of sparring. IF you know the only way a guy submits you is if you try to pass his guard, you won't try to pass his guard. If the only way he KOs you is with a left hook, you'll keep your right hand pinned to your ear. The problem with that is it takes away each guy;s best weapons and you see a lot of stalemates with little definitive action. That's not exciting for the fans and it's not the fight that you would see if these guys walked into the ring/mat/octagon without knowing about each other. If there's someone else that can fight in their place, I prefer to see that.

Piccosaur » Posted 6/22/07 8:45:00PM

You don't get much closer than Wandy and Shogun, and Shogun already said he'd fight anyone for the title even though they're friends. Rampage also said he'd fight his friend just because it's his job, but I'm forgetting who he was referring to. The answer is no though, there is and will continue to be too much talent to see who the clear #1 and #2 is, and if they do happen to be friends they need to just step up and make it professional.

the_Advocate » Posted 4/6/07 3:08:00PM

i get what you are saying about tito/ chuck...i was just making a correlation due to tito's claim that because they were friends it would not likely happen...problem was...chuck didn't see it that way.....in the end it is essentially an individual's sport and if you desire to be #1...these situations are gonna arise...it interjects in other ways as well.... i had a burning feeling when gsp fought serra that this might be bad (i'm not saying i knew he was gonna lose)....gsp really didn't want to fight serra due to his liking for him and i think it versely affected the way he performed in the fight...he didn't have that same killer instinct.....there seems to be so many positives and negatives in this scenario but should it all really matter if you wanna be #1?

wilwith1l » Posted 6/29/07 5:13:00PM

Ok, what if Alexander was the #1 contender to Fedor

the_Advocate » Posted 4/6/07 3:08:00PM

I'm kinda leaning that way too....be professional and step up and take the fight.....and i believe Rampage was referring to Hendo and their upcoming match.

Copenhagen » Posted 4/16/07 12:41:00PM


Posted by wilwith1l

Ok, what if Alexander was the #1 contender to Fedor



Haha, your example wins.

fullerene » Posted 5/31/07 3:28:00PM


Posted by wilwith1l

Ok, what if Alexander was the #1 contender to Fedor


Not so far fetched. IF they both end up in Bodog or K-1 who would be better than either? Ninja and Shogun could have been #1 and #2 as well if they had picked the right promotion.

At a few points in the last 4 years you could have made an argument in boxing that Wladamir and Vitali Klitshko were the #1 and #2 HW fighters in the world. They made it clear on the way up the ladder, though, that their goal was to hold titles simulataneously and that they would never fight each other.

I wouldn't expect brother to fight and, if they did, I would expect it to be a fight where I couldn't trust the action/'decision I saw.

the_Advocate » Posted 4/6/07 3:08:00PM


Posted by wilwith1l

Ok, what if Alexander was the #1 contender to Fedor



there was actually some mention of this on fedor's site...apparently aleks has the desire to fight fedor....fedor didn't seem to lean either way on the topic.

jomatty » Posted 7/13/07 9:07:00AM

personally i think it is fine for those that do not feel comforatable fighting each other not to do so. in grappling or jiu jitsu its one thing but in nhb competition i think that getting mad is a part of the process for many fighters and i just think it adds up to boring fights. you take two exciting fighters like silva and shogun who dont want to fight each other and you end up with a glorified sparring session where neither fighter has their killer instinct. i think its noble when someone steps down and refuses to fight their friend. chute box is a great example and i think its cool that silva now says its shoguns time (easier to do as a contender though but still...)

Signal2112 » Posted 5/31/07 6:49:00AM

If the title holder and the clear #1 contender are friends, I guess that's just tough and they can fight for the belt. Even still, I don't think it would make for the most thrilling match. Apart from both contenders really knowing the strengths of the other guy, they are friends, and no one likes to mash up a buddy. Thus, we all get a match that looks like Silvia vs Arlovski III.

gspgnp » Posted 5/23/07 11:15:00AM

I don't think that fighters should have to fight anybody they are told to fight. I actually respect good friends like Shogun/Wandy who step up and say they would rather not fight each other. No fighter should be forced to fight someone he does not want to whether it be his very good friend or with Fedor and Aleks' case brothers. Fighters are human to and who wants to beat up, hurt or possibly injure or ruin the carrer of someone they care about.

With that been said, I think the promoter has the right to inform the public of why the fighter does not want that fight. This prevents opponents from trying to avoid fighters by claiming they are friends ala Tito/Chuck.

Now I am not trying to say that friends should never fight, because in certain cases,(usually when there are belts involved), friends are alright with duking it out for a night when they are destined to like Dan and Rampage. However, I am trying to say that fighters do not have to fight anybody that is put in front of them. The ''I'll fight anybody, anywhere'' attitude is overrated. Sure they have a job, but since when does working for someone mean that you have no say in what you do on the job. My point is that someone who stands up to their boss and holds firm on something they feel strongly about, (like not trying to hurt someone you care about), is a sign of someone who is a very strong and courageous person.

EddieBowers » Posted 6/22/07 5:20:00PM

Fighting a friend can be very hard to do. You all have made some very good points to that. I say it is up to the fighters, if they want to... then go for it. If they do not want to fight each other, then we as fans shoudl respect that. As stated before, a title match between two friends??? BORING, now maybe not so if it is a match between friends going for a title match... you might see more energy for that. But I will say this, I have seen several fights that were boring as hell, and the two people did not liek each other.... Sanchez vs Koscheck UFC 69(sorry if a spelt his name wrong). But that fight sucked.

fullerene » Posted 5/31/07 3:28:00PM

If you go to a non-seeded grappling, wrestling, boxing, karate, etc. tournament therer is often an option to talk to the person making the brackets and request that fighters from the same school be put on different sides. The result is what I and a few other people talked about with the only possibility of fighting each other occurring if you both end up in the finals. And "yes" in some of these sports there is an honor system where even then one guy (usually the younger in age or experience) will forfeit the match so the fight still doesn't occur.

CwB » Posted 2/27/07 2:05:00PM

I personally would fight my best friend for the belt any day of the week. i strive to the best at everything and if was champ or number one contender i would fight anyone to be number 1. this sport is about finding the best fighter in the world not 1 and 2 and lets leave it at that.

I do respect honoring your friend or elder (shogun not wanting to fight wandy) and dont have any problem with friends not fighting, but i personally would fight anyone.

P.S. it kinda sucks that we wont see Shogun/Wandy, Hendo/Lindland, or Filho/Silva, etc. those are great fights

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