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Nearly blind, Shane Carwin was hoping for 'one clean shot' against Junior dos Santos   [View Full Version]
pmoney » Posted 10/13/10 10:40:00PM

Shane Carwin: Engineer, fighter, salesman?

The former UFC Interim Heavyweight Champion had to convince the cageside doctor not to stop the UFC 131 main event on June 11 in Vancouver after Junior dos Santos made it nearly impossible for him to breathe.

And he was unable to see.

Article

pmoney » Posted 10/13/10 10:40:00PM

That fight should have stopped in the first round. And I don't say that just because (like most), I picked JDS for first round KO.

Everyone is saying Herb Dean made they right call by letting that fight continue. I beg to differ. At a certain point, when a fighter can't defend themselves, it is the responsibility of the doctors, referee, and corner to stop the fight.

At the end of the first round, Carwin was already disfigured. I knew JDS had beaten the eyesight out of him. When he was turtled up in the first, he was pointing at his eyes for Christ's sake. I thought he could've been pointing at his mouthpiece, but I knew he was in a bad way.

And sure, Carwin managed to make it back to his feet in the first, but it still doesn't mean the fight should not have been called. Look back at Cain Velasquez vs. Ben Rothwell. That was one of the most vicious beatings I've seen a man endure. And if the referee didn't stop that fight, Rothwell never would have quit. But here's the thing: The ref called that fight while Rothwell was in the process of standing up.

In my mind, getting back to your feet doesn't mean ****. I thought Rothwell was going to die in the octagon because he wouldn't quit. And again, that's what the doctors and officials and cornermen are for. Some fighters just won't quit because they can take a truckload of punishment. But just because you can take it, doesn't mean you should take it, or be allowed to take it. Carwin just got aged about a decade by that beating, and probably a couple surgeries too. At best he has a broken nose and cracked skull.

postman » Posted 6/23/07 7:57:00PM

Disagree and all you have to do is go to the Carwin Lesnar fight to find why. Not to mention when JDS was calling for the stopage he was punching Shane in the hand.

Edit:
If you click on the link below the Fight Doc from MMAJunkie Praised Herb Deans work inn the main event. the praise may come more from him getting Carwin checked out later in the fight but I doubt any praise would have been givin if he felt the fight went on too long

link

pmoney » Posted 10/13/10 10:40:00PM

Carwin-Lesnar is not even close to what happened here. Brock didn't get hit with any demolishing shots, he just is afraid to get hit. Carwin was sloppy trying to close that out.... This opening round was closer to Lesnar-Velasquez.

In Lesnar-Carwin, Lesnar took some big shots and got rocked. He turtled up, but he didn't get his face completely ******* smashed like Carwin's did. Carwin after the first round with JDS probably looked worse than Brock did days after his fight with Carwin, when his swelling would have been peak. Lesnar didn't even look that bad against Velasquez, aesthetically speaking of course.

But what do I know. I am sure a gash on the cheek is worse than a crushed nose, cuts on both eyes and a ******* skull fracture. If the fighter can't see or breathe, but he wants to fight, just let him!

bjj1605 » Posted 10/11/07 4:18:00PM


Posted by postman

Disagree and all you have to do is go to the Carwin Lesnar fight to find why. Not to mention when JDS was calling for the stopage he was punching Shane in the hand.

Edit:
If you click on the link below the Fight Doc from MMAJunkie Praised Herb Deans work inn the main event. the praise may come more from him getting Carwin checked out later in the fight but I doubt any praise would have been givin if he felt the fight went on too long

link



this. totally agree. Especially about the Carwin-Lesnar comparison.

emfleek » Posted 11/18/07 4:54:00PM


Posted by pmoney

But what do I know. I am sure a gash on the cheek is worse than a crushed nose, cuts on both eyes and a ******* skull fracture. If the fighter can't see or breathe, but he wants to fight, just let him!



Fighters fight with broken noses and cuts all the time. Where are you getting this skull fracture information from? This is the 2nd time I've read something you posted about it. Are you guessing? I surely haven't read about it anywhere.

It's possible to intelligently defend yourself *and* take damage at the same time.

_______________________________________
"I'm like the superhero coming in with the anti-bullsh*t." - Nick Diaz

pmoney » Posted 10/13/10 10:40:00PM


Posted by emfleek


Posted by pmoney

But what do I know. I am sure a gash on the cheek is worse than a crushed nose, cuts on both eyes and a ******* skull fracture. If the fighter can't see or breathe, but he wants to fight, just let him!



Fighters fight with broken noses and cuts all the time. Where are you getting this skull fracture information from? This is the 2nd time I've read something you posted about it. Are you guessing? I surely haven't read about it anywhere.

It's possible to intelligently defend yourself *and* take damage at the same time.



I had read an article saying he had a fractured cheek bone or something to that extent. And the whole point of my post seems to have been lost....

Yes, you can intelligently defend yourself and take damage at the same time. I am pretty sure I said as much. But there I feel there is a line. There is a time when enough is enough. You can defend yourself all you want, and take all the shots you want, it doesn't mean you should be allowed to.

Check the Stephens-Downes fight. About as one sided of an asswhooping as there could be. But Downes got his ass whooped, not beat in to the hospital. He took his lumps, and damn near got his arm broken by the Kimura, but he didn't incur any major physical injuries (judging on outward appearances, still never saw a suspension list from TUF 13 that I recall).

Carwin got a mudhole stomped in his ass, and admits to being unable to see and lying to the doctors about it. I just feel that when someone gets their ass beat to the point where they can't see, then the maybe the cornermen (who knew Carwin couldn't see) should step in and throw in the towel.

Edit: Can't find the article on the fractured cheek bone. Either way, if a nose is broken badly enough, that is enough to warrant a doctor's stoppage. In the end, I completely see how the argument can go for the fight to continue, and how it can be argued that the fight should have been stopped.

I think one of the main reasons the fight wasn't stopped was because of Carwin's one-punch knockout power. But now because of his "organic" diet, let's see how much of that power he retains.

emfleek » Posted 11/18/07 4:54:00PM

Hindsight is 20/20.

All I know is that, if I were Shane Carwin and my corner threw in the towel for me, their asses would be fired before the towel hit the mat.

There are professionals (refs, trainers, cut men, doctors, etc.) on site for a reason. Until they give me reason not to, I'll trust them to do their jobs.

_______________________________________
"I'm like the superhero coming in with the anti-bullsh*t." - Nick Diaz

pmoney » Posted 10/13/10 10:40:00PM


Posted by emfleek

Hindsight is 20/20.

All I know is that, if I were Shane Carwin and my corner threw in the towel for me, their asses would be fired before the towel hit the mat.

There are professionals (refs, trainers, cut men, doctors, etc.) on site for a reason. Until they give me reason not to, I'll trust them to do their jobs.



I see where you are coming from, 100%. I guess I am just disturbed by certain things I've seen recently. Like when GSP tells Greg Jackson he can't see out of one eye, and he says "Well you still have one good one!"

This is a sport. A sport I love. And eye injuries are no joke. Broken bones heal (although sometimes not correctly). Scars heal. Blindness however, we haven't figured out how to fix. Same with brain damage.

Sure, I would hate to see GSP lose his title by his corner throwing in the towel because of one fluke shot/poke to the eye. But that's not the only example. Where was the doctor when Kos got his orbital cracked and beaten so bad he reportedly sustained nerve damage?

I just want the fighters to be safe. In the fight, and after the fight. I am sure everyone else does too. I just wonder if some of these trainers and cornermen are looking out for their fighters, or just living vicariously through them because they are too ***** to fight themselves....

Carwin's trainer on the rush he got watching Carwin get the ****beat out of him

mrsmiley » Posted 4/12/07 4:37:00PM

I thought all things considered,after the first round Carwin did better than some gave him credit for. He never got anything going in the fight but the guys got some heart to keep going after a beating like he got at the end of the first.

JDS I think learned alot coming away from his fight with Nelson. HE finaly found out some guys,no matter how hard you punch are just going to keep coming and the fight with Carwin is evidence he wisely paced himself during the fight.

emfleek » Posted 11/18/07 4:54:00PM


Posted by pmoney

Sure, I would hate to see GSP lose his title by his corner throwing in the towel because of one fluke shot/poke to the eye. But that's not the only example. Where was the doctor when Kos got his orbital cracked and beaten so bad he reportedly sustained nerve damage?



I'm no doctor by any means, but the human body has of millions upon millions of nerves. I'd be willing to bet that *every* fighter suffers some sort of nerve damage in *every* fight. You can't exactly diagnose that mid-fight.

The orbital bone thing...it's part of the fight game. These fighters are big boys...they know what they're getting themselves into.

I understand your concerns but I've just always been a fan of the "if it's not broken, don't fix it" mentality. Until it becomes a problem, I don't think we need to police it.

_______________________________________
"I'm like the superhero coming in with the anti-bullsh*t." - Nick Diaz

emfleek » Posted 11/18/07 4:54:00PM


Posted by pmoney

Sure, I would hate to see GSP lose his title by his corner throwing in the towel because of one fluke shot/poke to the eye.



By the way...I would *not* hate this.

_______________________________________
"I'm like the superhero coming in with the anti-bullsh*t." - Nick Diaz

pmoney » Posted 10/13/10 10:40:00PM


Posted by emfleek


Posted by pmoney

Sure, I would hate to see GSP lose his title by his corner throwing in the towel because of one fluke shot/poke to the eye.



By the way...I would *not* hate this.




Lol, alright, in the interest of full disclosure, neither would I. I was just trying to make a point.



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