Posted by nate22
There's no possible way to know if he is the best in the world? Yes there is, it was based on 1000's of fans formulating opinions, the majority who viewed both Pride and UFC with no bias and understood simply during the era of the past few years Prides HW division was alot deeper and had more talent than that of the UFC's...
...I hope that explains how we have come to the conclusion that Fedor was and still is (for the time being) the number one HW in the world.
You're probably correct in saying it was based on 1000's of fans formulating opinions. And I'm certain that it was probably 45% Pride fans with mostly Pride fighters in the rankings, 45% UFC fans with mostly UFC fighters in their rankings, and 10% non-biased opinions which account for little to nothing compared to the other 90%.
I'm trying not to disrespect you, and I am trying hard to respect your opinion. But in all honesty I think your point of view is absolutely rediculous. I don't care what some MMA Insider ranking, or Sherdog ranking says... until that fight takes place there is no way of knowing for sure who is the better fighter. You will never be able to produce an argument that holds enough weight to change my opinion or any other opinion of a person who thinks ratings should be based upon recent performance and the top fighters fighting one another. Say you aren't biased all you want, but your view sounds completely biased as a Pride fan, most specifically with your point of view that Pride had the top HW fighters in the world. Need I begin to discuss CC? Especially recently? Great fighter, no doubt... hasn't done so well against UFC HWs
Posted by TNunley
Posted by nate22
There's no possible way to know if he is the best in the world? Yes there is, it was based on 1000's of fans formulating opinions, the majority who viewed both Pride and UFC with no bias and understood simply during the era of the past few years Prides HW division was alot deeper and had more talent than that of the UFC's...
...I hope that explains how we have come to the conclusion that Fedor was and still is (for the time being) the number one HW in the world.
You're probably correct in saying it was based on 1000's of fans formulating opinions. And I'm certain that it was probably 45% Pride fans with mostly Pride fighters in the rankings, 45% UFC fans with mostly UFC fighters in their rankings, and 10% non-biased opinions which account for little to nothing compared to the other 90%.
No it was simply MMA fans. Probably 95% of them American also who has easiest access and better coverage to the UFC, yet still appreciated the fact that Cabbage, Mir, Slyvia, AA and so on were all the basis of a terrible HW divsion at the time, hence the fact that the majority of Pride fighters were able to establish themselves as top ten fighters by competing with one another (fighters who had credibility and the respect of fans, fighters who were consistently considered the best in the world)
Sine TUF there's been a huge influx of UFC bias that has diminished theses opinions and I find normally i'm arguing with people who never actually followed Pride at the time? This being the reason I didn't particularly want to converse with you about the subject in the first place. I followed both org's at the time and followed a number of forums and they all had the same opinions as the one our sites holds at the moment.
http://mmaplayground.com/top-10-mma-fighters.aspx?Display=P4P
How can we tell who is the best? This is the only way.
Posted by nate22
Posted by TNunley
Posted by cmill21
This right here tells me you have no idea what your talking about, Pride had more people watching live then the UFC does, ppv no but live yeeeep. He owes Japanese fans for his fame, alot of UFC fans don't know who he is, don't give a crap about him he's got alot of money and a few other continent's that worship him.
Can you name the last UFC event that didn't sell out? So Pride had a few extra chairs in their stadium than the UFC did... what difference does it make? Ultimately they still had more people watching. CMill, sometimes I just don't understand how you think some of the things you say makes any sense.
He owes Japanese fans for his fame? Wow, that's brilliant... I guess you got me there... since the people in Japan loved him, that's why so many people in the USA were his fans. I honestly don't know how to completely respond to that... did you think about that before you typed it? So no one that wasn't Japanese bought a PPV, is that what you're really saying?
To say that a lot of UFC fans don't know who he is just makes me think that maybe YOU have no idea what YOU are talking about. I'm a UFC fan sure... I know exactly who he is... I've seen his fights, and I'm certain that there are many people who love the UFC that know exactly who he is... you are probably right though in saying that many of us don't give a crap about him anymore.
He doesn't owe the fans for his fame. He got his fame from his performances against the then top HW fighters in the world (there's no argument against this, they were, at the time). He has never been a fighter to promote himself alot or speak disrespectfully or attempt to hype fights with utter bullshit like the majority of UFC stars.
I'm not responding anymore than this to your previous post because I simply think it's a load of rubbish. As with cmill, I also don't really think you know what you're talking about. I have no allegiance with any organisation but without even saying it directly it's plain obvious where yours lie and you are making a fool out of yourself, in my opinion in the process because your bias exposes your complete lack of knowledge regarding anything to do with the subject.
So Pride didn't have bigger live crowds? Fedor didn't fight in Japan? That's like saying the Japanese fans like Randy more then the american fans. To the Japanese Fedor is like Randy is to the American fans. I'm not saying that there are no Fedor fans in the US, or any other country, but there are more fans of his that lie in Japan and Russia then there are in North America. So all in all I think I'm right and am making valid points here. How can my allegiance lay with Pride when it doesn't exist? This topic also had nothing to do with the UFC vs. Pride but somehow when I say something it seems to get twisted into that very quickly. The more exposure a certain fighter has to a certain market will obviously effect their popularity there, to say it woulden't is rediculous.
Posted by cmill21
So Pride didn't have bigger live crowds? Fedor didn't fight in Japan? That's like saying the Japanese fans like Randy more then the american fans. To the Japanese Fedor is like Randy is to the American fans. I'm not saying that there are no Fedor fans in the US, or any other country, but there are more fans of his that lie in Japan and Russia then there are in North America. So all in all I think I'm right and am making valid points here. How can my allegiance lay with Pride when it doesn't exist? This topic also had nothing to do with the UFC vs. Pride but somehow when I say something it seems to get twisted into that very quickly. The more exposure a certain fighter has to a certain market will obviously effect their popularity there, to say it woulden't is rediculous.
In all honesty... I feel like you're a bad penny sometimes CMill, you're posts just keep showing up! Just giving you a hard time, I enjoy a good discussion.
Seriously man, stop and think about what I'm about to say for a second. Really read it, and think hard before you respond with the same question that I've already answered.
I can not think of one single UFC event that had an empty seat for purchase. That means that every ticket that could have been bought... WAS bought. If Pride had more people sitting in the stands at the event it is ONLY because they had more available seating. <~~~~~Please read that again before making another comment about who had more people sitting in their stands.
This is where it's gonna get confusing.... Let's say just hypothetically that Pride had 20,000 seats sell out for an event and sold 100,000 PPVs. The UFC had an event where they had 18,000 seats sell out, and sold 200,000 PPVs. If both venues sell out, the reason one had more than the other "live" is because of seating capacity. Sure there may be 20,000 fans at a Pride event, but the UFC can only hold 18,000... but total Pride would have had 120,000 total purchases and UFC would have had 218,000 purchases.
Does that make any sense to you?
Nobody is saying Fedor didn't fight in Japan... once again please read what I'm about to say and think about it before you respond.
Fedor's fan base is not entirely made up of the people who live in Japan. Do you live in Japan? Were you any less of a fan than they were? Your original comment was:
"He owes Japanese fans for his fame, alot of UFC fans don't know who he is, don't give a crap about him "
There is no way that because the people in Japan liked him, that he became famous in America. I personally couldn't care less about what someone in Japan likes in respect to my likes.
TNuley, i am just going to tell you, there is no point in trying to convince cmill on your views of the ufc. he just hates the ufc and thats just the way he is. he was an avid pride fan and just hates the ufc and what it stands for. so i am just trying to tell you to save your breath even though i 100% agree with you
Posted by jiujitsufreak74
TNuley, i am just going to tell you, there is no point in trying to convince cmill on your views of the ufc. he just hates the ufc and thats just the way he is. he was an avid pride fan and just hates the ufc and what it stands for. so i am just trying to tell you to save your breath even though i 100% agree with you
Ha, I know he will never concede his argument... but I'm sitting here at work bored out of my mind... I got nothing better to do!
Nunley I wasn't replying to you, I was replying to the person I quoted. I am not in any way saying pride is better, I am saying that yes they had bigger crowds, because yes they had more seating, when you first posted you said they didn't, so I said they did. and to JJfreak, I don't hate the UFC, what would make you think I did? Because I liked pride? That makes it so I can't like both? My favorite fighter came from there, but 2 of my other favorites have been in the UFC for a while(GSP and Machida). I'm really tired of everything I say is turned into an I hate the UFC. I just said that Pride had bigger crowds, but live crowds clearly don't matter, look at how the richest teams in baseball have 20,000 people per and 200 million payrolls. I don't know what argument is even going on here, I was just saying whats going on. lol
Posted by cmill21
Nunley I wasn't replying to you, I was replying to the person I quoted. I am not in any way saying pride is better, I am saying that yes they had bigger crowds, because yes they had more seating, when you first posted you said they didn't, so I said they did. and to JJfreak, I don't hate the UFC, what would make you think I did? Because I liked pride? That makes it so I can't like both? My favorite fighter came from there, but 2 of my other favorites have been in the UFC for a while(GSP and Machida). I'm really tired of everything I say is turned into an I hate the UFC. I just said that Pride had bigger crowds, but live crowds clearly don't matter, look at how the richest teams in baseball have 20,000 people per and 200 million payrolls. I don't know what argument is even going on here, I was just saying whats going on. lol
cmill, i apologize. its just that it seems that your bashing the ufc in a lot of your posts and i just figured you just plain out didn't like the ufc. you have to admit, you are a bit biased, but who isn't. again i'm sorry if i disrespected you and i didn'y mean anything by it except for the fact that i just thought you hate UFC. in the future i won't make such rash generalizations. again, i apologize
Tito vs Rashad 1 didn't sell out. In fact they couldn't give away all the tickets. That was in Sacramento btw.
Nope no problem. Am I bias yeah. I do defend both when I feel I should, and right now most of the time it is Pride being critizised. Look in some of the Randy threads, people say he's scared of Fedor and I jumped right in to defend him, I've defended chuck against people saying he's washed up and that. I do try and support both but it seems some like to only see the defence of Pride lol.
Im not even gonna bother debating this...all i have to say is..
Fedor's a coward......I hope Randy's retirement made Fedor feel like a big,wet,giant...(you know what)...
lIke i said before....either lose to the best,or beat the best,or go home.
Bye
