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Matt Hamill vs. Michael Bisping Dissected

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Aether

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Posted by Ydoc


Posted by ocho-cinco
I agree with everything except the part about not awarding points for take down stuffs. I agree it is a defensive move, but it can be a hugely influential on a fight. When someone tries to put you on your back, it is from a neutral position (both fighters are standing) so one fighter is stopping the fight from taking place where he would be at a disadvantage. I think it ties into octagon control. When someone gets out of a submission he was already in trouble. Avoiding strikes I think doesn't make much difference. If a guy avoids strikes, and does something afterwards then sure, chalk one up, but he is just running away, then no, he shouldn't get points



I wasn't awarding points for avoiding takedowns. Takedowns earn points in my book, and that's something that helps him win that last round in my opinion.



He was saying you SHOULD be awarding points for avoiding takedowns:

I agree with everything except the part about not awarding points for take down stuffs

stuffing a takedown = avoiding a takedown.

Post #31   9/10/07 11:34:13AM   

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Posted by Jackelope


Posted by ChokeUout

No matter which way you break this down, Hamill got robbed. I had the score 29-28 Hamill, and that's being generous because Hammil was close to winning the third round too.

Basically, I wonder what the score of the fight would have been if this fight was ANYWHERE else but in England.

PS...Who Else thought Matt Hamill was a Bad-ass for walking in to "Born in the USA" while facing a brit, In England? haha



HAHAH I was just about to make a post concerning this. I didn't want Hammill to win at all going into the fight, but once that song came on I changed my mind and started rooting for him. I thought that was an awesome song pick



I completely agree, I picked bisping and wagered money on him. Then when everyone booed Hamill when that song was going, I started wanting him to win. Then when he started the fight, I was shocked at how much he has improved his stand-up. By the end of the first round, I really wanted Hamill to take it, and I feel that he should have. UFC lost major respect points for the decision made.

Post #32   9/10/07 12:01:43PM   

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I've studdied this fight, right decision and this is why ...

Round one, Hamill did win round one, he clearly stalked bisping, landed two great shots that open two cuts on bispings upper cheeks, Hamill got two take downs , landed a leg kick, and around 19 decent shots for the judges to mark. Bisping did get up from one takedown as hamill did no damage, hamill also let him up once. Bisping did throw a few combo's and kicks moving in to hamill, some of matts punches were very wild and clumsey, With hamills flying knee and the ability to stalk bisping, i give hamill the round, though an unsettled bisping did still land a good combo, got up from one of the takedowns and landed some leg kicks.

Round one Hamill 10 - 9, hamills takedowns and two punches that cut bisping.
Bisping getting the 9 for his combo and leg kicks.

Round two, hamill begins to stalk again, bisping begins the stick and move process coming in more frequentle and scoring with combo's and straight jabs. Matt did land some shots but most punches were wild swinging hands that didnt connect. Hamill gets the take down, bisping attempts sub with rubber guard, hamill looking tired on top, not able to g&p bisping as he did a good job tying the arms and working for position from the bottom. Bisping gets up from takedown and lands a few more jabs and a leg kick. Goldberg says " hamill not as dominant now as in round one" 2:56 left on clock. Hamill gets that elbow lock and lands a few punches with nothing on them, bisping pushes away, again stick and move throwing combo's moving in to the hammer. Bisping throws a combo answered by hamil with an elbow, end of round. Hamill has a cut on his nose. Bisping landed 6 or 7 combo's wich pretty much all connected.

Round two Bisping 10 - 9, bispings combo's, he done the damage in that round, hamill got a takedown and stalked for first two and a half minutes, but did no damage, wild shots, hands were down, looked tired and did nothing after he got the takedown. Bisping got up from the takedown after working from the bottom, landed the combo's and did the more damage. He wins the round on that basis. Hamil was still active, got one takedown, didnt stop fighting, landed some shots, stalked for half the round, although he didnt take advantage when he got the takedown, bisping controlled him on the mat and went for a sub.

Round three, Hamill looked tired, couldnt land many jabs as bisping became more comfetable with his stick and move landing several combo's on hamil. Overall in this round hamill landed about 12 shots, wildly swinging for bisping again. Go himself two takedowns but again, bisping stayed busy on the bottom, controlling hamill, landed a few rabbit punches from the bottom, matt did not answer. Bisping worked his way back up to his feet both times.
On the feet bisping got alittle better than round two, landing good combo's again, hamill's response was wild swings that did not have as much affect as bispings punches. Bisping stopped three or four takedown attempts. Lands a nice kick to the head/neck just before round ends, Hamills hands are down, leaving him exposed to bispings shots, they nearly all landed. Bispings knee to hamills face before the takedown and his two leg kicks combined with his combo strikes stood out in this round.

Round three bisping 10 - 9, based on his improved strikes, stick and move, combo's and kicks, controlling hamill after being taken down, three or four defending takedowns. Hamil looking ever tired, still done well, landed twelve/thirteen jabs, two takedowns and abit more stalking. But not enough as bisping out boxed him ans stopped three or four takedowns.

Very unimpressed by both fighters, thought this would be fight of the night, it flopped, But i have to say from an in depth look into the possible scoring system through the eyes of the ufc judges, Bisping by split was the right call.

One question i ask you all, If hamill got lets say five takedowns in the whole fight, and bisping stopped 5 takedowns as well, how does it affect the scores ?? Bisping overall in the three rounds collectively, was the one who landed more shots from combo's, leg kicks, and jabs. Bisping was busier on the ground and did get up from all takedowns, bisping tried one sub. The only clear thing hamill did was land two good shots that cut bisping, got the takedowns, and dominated the agression for the first 7 or 8 minutes.

One thing is for sure, They do need to fight again soon... ????

Cheers

Post #33   9/10/07 12:48:41PM   

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Posted by chris91301


Posted by Trapt1nw0nder

Its also pretty cool that 95% of the Internet thinks Hamill got the win...so there is no where to hide for Bisping



UFC is still babying Bisping to promote for the british crowd. Too bad they dont at least let their ex-fans know the script prior to the fights.



I gave the edge to Hammil. As for the UFC babying Bisping, I don't get what you mean. The UFC doesn't judge the fights. Dana even said postfight that he thought Hammil won. Also, If they were babying him they wouldn't have put him against someone who made him look bad on TUF, and ( if he won) could claim he was the real TUF 3 champ. Since Bisping technically got the decision I agree a step up in competition is in order. I would love to see him fight the Jardine or Forrest. I think both would have the ability to GnP him.

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Post #34   9/10/07 1:48:05PM   

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Posted by Jackelope


Posted by ChokeUout

No matter which way you break this down, Hamill got robbed. I had the score 29-28 Hamill, and that's being generous because Hammil was close to winning the third round too.

Basically, I wonder what the score of the fight would have been if this fight was ANYWHERE else but in England.

PS...Who Else thought Matt Hamill was a Bad-ass for walking in to "Born in the USA" while facing a brit, In England? haha



HAHAH I was just about to make a post concerning this. I didn't want Hammill to win at all going into the fight, but once that song came on I changed my mind and started rooting for him. I thought that was an awesome song pick



I wonder if he even knew what they were going to play... It's not like he's heard that song before. It was an awesome song pick... It definitely made some fans here in the US.

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Post #35   9/10/07 2:00:22PM   

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Posted by hippysmacker


Posted by chris91301


Posted by Trapt1nw0nder

Its also pretty cool that 95% of the Internet thinks Hamill got the win...so there is no where to hide for Bisping



UFC is still babying Bisping to promote for the british crowd. Too bad they dont at least let their ex-fans know the script prior to the fights.



I gave the edge to Hammil. As for the UFC babying Bisping, I don't get what you mean. The UFC doesn't judge the fights. Dana even said postfight that he thought Hammil won. Also, If they were babying him they wouldn't have put him against someone who made him look bad on TUF, and ( if he won) could claim he was the real TUF 3 champ. Since Bisping technically got the decision I agree a step up in competition is in order. I would love to see him fight the Jardine or Forrest. I think both would have the ability to GnP him.




I agree 100%. Since "he won" at ufc 75 i say we need to stop giving him Elvis Sinosics or Eric Shafers and give him a step up in competetion. Either a jardine or forrest or maybe even a ryoto machida. hell maybe then lyota could finally get a knock out again

Post #36   9/10/07 2:27:25PM   

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If you watch the post-fight interview of Bisping, he gives Matt Hamill a lot of credit. This is the total opposite of what he said about Hamill prior to the fight. He was talking a lot of smack about how Hamill is not a well-rounded fighter, etc. and now he boasts how he beat such a tough, strong opponent.

Arg, my respect for Bisping has dropped. I do not blame him that he won, it was a close fight, but the way he conducted himself afterwards is appalling.

Last edited 9/10/07 4:01PM server time by MMA
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Post #37   9/10/07 2:34:17PM   

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Posted by ncordless


Posted by Jackelope


Posted by ChokeUout

No matter which way you break this down, Hamill got robbed. I had the score 29-28 Hamill, and that's being generous because Hammil was close to winning the third round too.

Basically, I wonder what the score of the fight would have been if this fight was ANYWHERE else but in England.

PS...Who Else thought Matt Hamill was a Bad-ass for walking in to "Born in the USA" while facing a brit, In England? haha



HAHAH I was just about to make a post concerning this. I didn't want Hammill to win at all going into the fight, but once that song came on I changed my mind and started rooting for him. I thought that was an awesome song pick



I wonder if he even knew what they were going to play... It's not like he's heard that song before. It was an awesome song pick... It definitely made some fans here in the US.



I thought the same thing, too. Then I figured he had probably read the lyrics before and must have liked them. From talking with a couple of deaf people I have learned that they can feel the vibrations of music pretty well. At least that's what they have told me. I'm not sure how that would work in a gigantic arena setting like London had, but the bass notes definitely seemed loud enough to be felt.

Post #38   9/10/07 3:10:10PM   

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i picked bisping to win but Hamil really was the one who should have won the fight. i don't know how that was decided but who cares. If anything it should make for a controversial rematch!!!!

Last edited 9/10/07 3:38PM server time by grandmaster313
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Post #39   9/10/07 3:36:46PM   

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You forgot to mention that most of Hammils strikes were jabs while Bisping threw more power shots including a sweet head kick to end the fight.

And while avoiding takedowns does not score points the fact that Bisping kept Hammil from taking him down says a lot to me. When Hammil did get him down. Bisping was able to stand up almost at will. Hammil didnt do much damage while on the ground either. Close fight could have gone either way.

Post #40   9/10/07 3:46:30PM   

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Eric Schafer is no joke and he would submit Hammil.

Post #41   9/10/07 3:52:25PM   

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Posted by MMA

If you watch the post-fight interview of Bisping, he gives Matt Hamill a lot of credit. This is the total opposite of what he said about Hamill prior to the fight. He was talking a lot of smack about how Hamill is not a well-rounded fighter, etc. and now he boasts how he beat such a tough, strong opponent.

Arg, my respect for Bisping has dropped. I do not blame him that he won, it was a close fight, but the way he conducted himself afterwards is appalling.




He also did this too...

As soon as UFC UK president Marshall Zelaznik opened the floor to questions, a British reporter asked Bisping if he felt he had won.

White, who said he felt Hamill won the fight two rounds to one, said he was told the man questioning Bisping was not a reporter, but rather a Hamill cornerman.

But instead of brushing it off and saying he felt he won and moving on, Bisping took a more unbecoming posture.

"Of course," Bisping said in an aggressive tone, which was much different than his witty, light-hearted persona in the days leading up to the fight. "Why would you talk to me like that?"

The questioner then responded, "Seriously?" which seemed to get Bisping further agitated.

"What do you mean, seriously?" Bisping said. "Do you want to go three rounds? … Of course I won the decision. Get the (expletive) out of here. Get that smile off your face."

And then Bisping made an obscene gesture.


The full article from where this is quoted is in the news forum.

Last edited 9/10/07 4:19PM server time by MMA
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Post #42   9/10/07 4:10:24PM   

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nice way to break it down. I think that this confirms what we all know, Bisping should not have won. Even my girlfriend who knows nothing about MMA was shocked that Bisping won because he was getting abused the whole fight.

Post #43   9/10/07 4:13:44PM   

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I agree with you. Hamil was comepletly screwed over in this fight. i cant wait for the rematch

Post #44   9/11/07 1:01:58AM   

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Add the judges scorecards.Even though only one judge was in favor of Hamill,if you add the numbers Hamill still came out ahead with more points.If the judges wanted to play a technical game,it should have at least went to a draw based on the fact that while two judges were in favor of Bisping(they should lose their jobs),Hamill still came out ahead in points.


Hamill got screwed!

Post #45   9/11/07 6:49:29AM   
 
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