Gonzaga predicts KO over Couture |
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carlmh311
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 31-32
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Atlanta, GA
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I say Randy takes this one by decision just like he did over Sylvia.
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Post #31 8/23/07 3:24:44PM
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Banned
Career record: 168-85
Season: 35-19 (#3064)
Location: Bay Area
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Randy is going to shock the crap out of everyone again. I remember how everyone said that Tito Ortiz was going to kick his ass because he had better ground and better stand up. Everyone said the same thing when he went up against Kevin Randleman. No one believed he could take out Chuck. But he did. He did because he is probably the single best grappler at his weight besides Fedor. In his loses to Ricco Rodriguez and Josh Barnett he was winning until he made mistakes. People can hardly blame him for a loss against either as both are known to abuse substances. At any rate, Couture is going to dominate in all aspects.
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War Tito.
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Post #32 8/23/07 3:37:39PM
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mikevolz
Standup Guy
Career record: 94-65
Season: 29-20 (#4236)
Location: us
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Randy was winning both of those fights btw.
yeah, but he lost them.
and guys, randy had tim "the house of cards" sylvia game planned perfectly. im pretty sure he gave him a concussion from that first punch considering "house of cards" didn't know what round it was after the 3rd. randy couldn't finish a concussed winded tim sylvia. he lacks the knock out power.
i mean, both of their previous fights to this one where exactly the same, they both won based on gameplan, they where both underdogs, and both fought 'feared' (and i apply that term to tim sylvia very loosely) strikers.
now you get into the battle of gameplanning against a balanced fighter vs 1 dimensional ones. gonzaga showed hes good at gameplanning and executing it as well. throw his high kick out. it was obviously part of the gameplan. gonzaga took cro cop down with ease and did immense damage to him on the ground which fedor showed us, is not easy to do. (granted its still debateable if cro cop had to stop doing the juice to fight in the ufc and was on them in pride, but still).
couture has much better 'technical' striking than gonzaga, but as he displayed vs sylvia, lacks that extra ummf on his punches to really put somebody on the moon. gonzaga isn't that technical of a striker, but has a lot of that ethnic athleticism that those damn brazilians seem to have. he probably played a lot of soccer when he was younger, id like to see his low kicks.
id give the edge to randy on that one
other than that randy has to wrestle a much stronger, guy 20 lbs bigger than you. i dont care how much conditioning you have, but defending against a skilled ju-jitsu guy that much bigger will take its toll. not to mention getting caught in a submission.
and people talk about how gonzaga lost to fabricio werdum, the fight is on youtube. i wouldn't say he got tko'd as much as lost based on his conditioning and couldn't defend himself.
and everyone says he hasn't fought top level competition, yeah but he also has done everything right, and has finished every one of his fights.
randy by submission? his last submission was an anaconda against mike van arsydale. and before that wa sa guillotine over Valentijn Overeem in 2001 in rings.
randy by ko/tko? throw out the vitor belfort doctor stoppage, the last time he won was aginast chuck in 2003.
randy by decision? his only chance. and that means he has to last 5 rounds with gonzaga.
im going to put some real money on gonzaga after tonights randy couture love fest on spike. hopefully that will make the odds better for me.
plus you know, working ont he scorpion king prequel, doing a bazillion interviews and media days, and having rachelle leah around during your training camp isn't exactly what id like to call focus.
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Post #33 8/23/07 3:48:42PM
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optimusprime
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 171-87
Season: 44-26 (#1393)
Location: Fargo, ND
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Im goin with Randy on this one. GG beat an uninspired CroCop and now everyone thinks hes the man. The Natural by TKO in the 3rd.
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Post #34 8/23/07 4:40:40PM
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Banned
Career record: 168-85
Season: 35-19 (#3064)
Location: Bay Area
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Posted by mikevolz
Randy was winning both of those fights btw.
yeah, but he lost them.
...
Seems like you're pulling your info from a web site instead of from actually seeing his fights. Randy lost to Overeem BTW. Good luck on your bet.
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War Tito.
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Post #35 8/23/07 5:00:34PM
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The People's Mod
Career record: 152-91
Season: 47-23 (#137)
Location: Getting choked out or arm barred
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Nice post arguing all the ways Randy won't sub or KO Gonzaga.
As I've always maintained and still continue to maintain- Randy by UD after wearing Gonzaga the F out
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"It is a shame that in this society we've been taught to judge a man's worth by what he owns instead of who he is." - Evan Tanner
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Post #36 8/23/07 5:10:16PM
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mikevolz
Standup Guy
Career record: 94-65
Season: 29-20 (#4236)
Location: us
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actually i did watch both of the fights, and im not sure about you, but a tko is a loss. they weren't controversial stoppages. randy lost...
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Post #37 8/24/07 11:19:11AM
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SicJits
MMA Regular
Career record: 129-64
Season: 29-11 (#3659)
Location: Everywhere, but mostly at your mom's house
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Posted by Jackelope
Posted by chickmagnet
Posted by Jackelope
Randy is such a cerebral opponent that I don't think it's fair to compare him to a couple of years ago since he learns at an exponential rate compared to most. I don't care what anybody says about Randy- his best ability is not his wrestling, his boxing, his takedowns, his GnP or whatever. His best ability is his ability to analyze opponents and build a game plan against them. I attribute much of Dan Henderson's success to talks with Randy Couture.
With the amount of money he's been making lately I have no doubt in my mind that he's got the right facilities, the right people, and the right training regimen to pull off an upset on GG. 5 rds of war for a Couture UD. The only chance GG stands is a freak knockout or a well played out submission.
Randy won't do well, everyone says he is going to wear Gonzaga out and get him tired, yeah right, Randy dosen't have better standup, Gonzaga has an edge in the standup, besides we all thought Cro Cop would pick apart
Gabe, not this time, Gabriel will come with the better strategy and BEAT
randy!!!
How in the hell up to this point has Gabe proven he has better standup than Couture at this point in his career? Yes, he knocked out Crocop.. but that was after he had taken him to the ground and dazed the shit out of him with elbows. We all saw Crocop circle the same direction for 3 or 4 circuits before Gonzaga hit him. Gonzaga even says "I saw that he was dazed from the elbows" in many interviews. Remember, this was Crocop's first time facing that kind of ground and pound. Don't forget the fact that in the beginning of the round Crocop almost broke Gonzaga's rib cage with a brutal kick.
AND Yet, from the one kick, people still believe Gonzaga's stand up is better.
Couture has stood toe to toe with the likes of Chuck Liddell, Tim Sylvia, Vitor Belfort, etc. etc. and somehow with one impressive win Gonzaga has better stand up?
People... THINK
randy himself will tell you his standup is his weakest part of his game. and besides crocops one kick on gg, gg dominated him before they hit the ground. if you re-watch randy vs timmy, randy does a very junior head movement from side-to-side the whole fight! if you've ever spoke to a boxer or kickboxer that is an easy way to time someone, timm was just to slow to do anything. i love randy as a fighter and as a human being, but gg poses alot of problems for randy in every aspect of this fight. and jackelope, do you think randy has better striking then crocop? because crocop never did any damage to gg, even prior to hitting the mat. and part of that was do to gg having no fear/intimidation of crocop, and alot of the fight is mental i.e.- kos/diego=boring when two guys both fear each others strengths and neither had the heart to push past it. that is not gg. but i cant wait to see it. and also vitor has good striking but randy took him down and then pounded him, and chuck ko'd him 2x because of striking, and sylvia is so slow and predictable, he just held the hw title when is was a weak division with really only aa around, and aa was afraid to mix it up with timmy after he got ko'd by him in their second fight. so.....next point please
Last edited 8/24/07 12:49PM by sicjits
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #38 8/24/07 12:45:46PM
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Banned
Career record: 168-85
Season: 35-19 (#3064)
Location: Bay Area
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Posted by SicJits
Posted by Jackelope
Posted by chickmagnet
Posted by Jackelope
Randy is such a cerebral opponent that I don't think it's fair to compare him to a couple of years ago since he learns at an exponential rate compared to most. I don't care what anybody says about Randy- his best ability is not his wrestling, his boxing, his takedowns, his GnP or whatever. His best ability is his ability to analyze opponents and build a game plan against them. I attribute much of Dan Henderson's success to talks with Randy Couture.
With the amount of money he's been making lately I have no doubt in my mind that he's got the right facilities, the right people, and the right training regimen to pull off an upset on GG. 5 rds of war for a Couture UD. The only chance GG stands is a freak knockout or a well played out submission.
Randy won't do well, everyone says he is going to wear Gonzaga out and get him tired, yeah right, Randy dosen't have better standup, Gonzaga has an edge in the standup, besides we all thought Cro Cop would pick apart
Gabe, not this time, Gabriel will come with the better strategy and BEAT
randy!!!
How in the hell up to this point has Gabe proven he has better standup than Couture at this point in his career? Yes, he knocked out Crocop.. but that was after he had taken him to the ground and dazed the shit out of him with elbows. We all saw Crocop circle the same direction for 3 or 4 circuits before Gonzaga hit him. Gonzaga even says "I saw that he was dazed from the elbows" in many interviews. Remember, this was Crocop's first time facing that kind of ground and pound. Don't forget the fact that in the beginning of the round Crocop almost broke Gonzaga's rib cage with a brutal kick.
AND Yet, from the one kick, people still believe Gonzaga's stand up is better.
Couture has stood toe to toe with the likes of Chuck Liddell, Tim Sylvia, Vitor Belfort, etc. etc. and somehow with one impressive win Gonzaga has better stand up?
People... THINK
randy himself will tell you his standup is his weakest part of his game. and besides crocops one kick on gg, gg dominated him before they hit the ground. if you re-watch randy vs timmy, randy does a very junior head movement from side-to-side the whole fight! if you've ever spoke to a boxer or kickboxer that is an easy way to time someone, timm was just to slow to do anything. i love randy as a fighter and as a human being, but gg poses alot of problems for randy in every aspect of this fight. and jackelope, do you think randy has better striking then crocop? because crocop never did any damage to gg, even prior to hitting the mat. and part of that was do to gg having no fear/intimidation of crocop, and alot of the fight is mental i.e.- kos/diego=boring when two guys both fear each others strengths and neither had the heart to push past it. that is not gg. but i cant wait to see it. and also vitor has good striking but randy took him down and then pounded him, and chuck ko'd him 2x because of striking, and sylvia is so slow and predictable, he just held the hw title when is was a weak division with really only aa around, and aa was afraid to mix it up with timmy after he got ko'd by him in their second fight. so.....next point please
I'm gonna have to disagree with domination on the feet. In fact, nothing much went on before CC threw his leg kick which GG cought and then proceeded to take CC down. Only after CC was taken down and pounded with elbows did they get back up and GG went on to kick him in the head. CC had blurry vision due to the elbows but I wouldn't eactly say that Gonzagas striking is proven. It's the same way that people try to call Rashad Evans a good striker after his knock out of Sean Salmon. You have to look at the context of the striking before you can say its good.
As for Couture's striking being his weakness... that may be true. But I will disagree with your assessment that head movement is junior. Head movement may be learned at the junior level but it is a vital and important part of the defensive boxing game --and make no mistakes, that is exactly what most of that fight was. Ask any boxing trainer what makes good boxing defense and they will tell you blocking, head movement and slipping. So I don't know who you have been talking to about boxing but I'm sure they are probably some one that thinks Ali had good defense... in other words, someone that doesn't know dick about boxing skills.
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War Tito.
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Post #39 8/24/07 1:25:58PM
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SicJits
MMA Regular
Career record: 129-64
Season: 29-11 (#3659)
Location: Everywhere, but mostly at your mom's house
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he hit cc before he took him down, they indeed did exchange. and as far as head movement goes, the patterened head movement is what i was refering to. Randy didn't slip just bobed his head back and forth while standing in front of tim. all im saying is that if you try that against a good striker(not necessarily gg) while not moving around or circling the side-to-side movement will not be as effective. i agree with you 100% it is an itegral part of boxing....if done correctly and combined with other "defensive" techniques. and by the way i've spent a minute or two inside of a boxing ring....when i was much younger yes...lol
the thing i dont understand with some of these guys that are supposed to be world class kickboxers/boxers is some still make very junior mistakes. an example sam stout's 2nd fight with spencer fisher, fisher is a southpaw and stout is supposed to be a world class kickboxer, but he circled the southpaw the wrong way most of the fight, by circling towards his left. not circling away from the power hand, and so fisher kept landing crisp lefts all night long. Im not picking on randy he is one of my mma heros, but he will get timed if he doesn't change a few of his deffensive techniques against gg, but i guess will see tommorrow.
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Post #40 8/24/07 2:18:14PM
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Banned
Career record: 168-85
Season: 35-19 (#3064)
Location: Bay Area
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I don't think Randy will use headmovement like that against Gonzaga... I think that was purely a strategy used only against Tim Sylvia. Sylvia is known for his jabs and headmovement like Couture's was exactly what prevented Tim from setting anything up. I think he was confident that Sylvia would be so concerned about getting taken down that he would never use a kick the entire fight. That is exactly what happened. I am pretty confident that Couture will have a completely different strategy for Gonzaga. What that strategy is.... like you said we will see tomorrow.
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War Tito.
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Post #41 8/24/07 2:46:32PM
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The People's Mod
Career record: 152-91
Season: 47-23 (#137)
Location: Getting choked out or arm barred
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Posted by SicJits
randy himself will tell you his standup is his weakest part of his game. and besides crocops one kick on gg, gg dominated him before they hit the ground. if you re-watch randy vs timmy, randy does a very junior head movement from side-to-side the whole fight! if you've ever spoke to a boxer or kickboxer that is an easy way to time someone, timm was just to slow to do anything. i love randy as a fighter and as a human being, but gg poses alot of problems for randy in every aspect of this fight. and jackelope, do you think randy has better striking then crocop? because crocop never did any damage to gg, even prior to hitting the mat. and part of that was do to gg having no fear/intimidation of crocop, and alot of the fight is mental i.e.- kos/diego=boring when two guys both fear each others strengths and neither had the heart to push past it. that is not gg. but i cant wait to see it. and also vitor has good striking but randy took him down and then pounded him, and chuck ko'd him 2x because of striking, and sylvia is so slow and predictable, he just held the hw title when is was a weak division with really only aa around, and aa was afraid to mix it up with timmy after he got ko'd by him in their second fight. so.....next point please
First of all I didn't say that Randy's strength was his stand up.
Second of all, GG never "dominated" CC before they hit the ground. I don't know how you define domination, but I define it as putting on a clinic. If you watch most of Crocops fights you will see that he normally feels out an opponent at the beginning of the fight. In the kickboxing world just because someone lands a few punches or kicks on you early on in the fight does not mean that they have dominated you. So "domination" is a word that you seem to throw around very loosely, and I think the majority of members on this forum will laugh when they see that you've written Gabriel Gonzaga dominated CC on his feet. CC got caught, it can and has happened to most of us, but before I would believe that Gonzaga "dominated" CC "before they hit the ground" (as you say) he would have to prove a lot more to me. To think that Gonzaga is capable of dominating any K-1 champion on their feet is just... I don't know the words... utterly ridiculous and the funniest thing I've ever heard. People can get caught by big punches/kicks, (especially after eating multiple elbows) but ha! Sweet jesus I have to move on... I can't stop focusing on the fact that you would say that.
I don't mean to sound so condescending, and I have nothing against you- but I found much of that post in regards to Gonzaga dominating Mirko Filipovic on the feet laughable. ANYWAY
Never once, ever, in any post I've ever made have I said that Gabriel Gonzaga doesn't pose a lot of problems for Randy Couture. I've simply stated that Couture has many tools in his belt to answer and overcome those problems.
One thing I have said is that I don't personally feel that Gonzaga has proven his stand up is better than Randy Couture at this point. I never said Randy Couture was one of the best stand up fighters in the UFC, I simply mentioned the likes of which he has fought with.
The fact that you just instantly blameTim Sylvia's inability to knock Couture out on the fact that he was too slow to capitalize on hitting Couture is also laughable. Especially considering that Tim Sylvia has knocked out Andrei Arlovski. I also suppose that his "very junior head movement" while junior, was still too quick for a very slow vitor belfort to capitalize on. Because we all know Belfort has some of the slowest hands in MMA.
Let us also not forget that as you mentioned Randy took down Belfort and pounded him- something Gonzaga definitely didn't do to Crocop, right?
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"It is a shame that in this society we've been taught to judge a man's worth by what he owns instead of who he is." - Evan Tanner
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Post #42 8/24/07 5:54:01PM
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Banned
Career record: 168-85
Season: 35-19 (#3064)
Location: Bay Area
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Let's not forget Randy did out box Liddell in their first fight if I'm not mistaken.
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War Tito.
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Post #43 8/24/07 6:09:49PM
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The People's Mod
Career record: 152-91
Season: 47-23 (#137)
Location: Getting choked out or arm barred
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Posted by nubby
Let's not forget Randy did out box Liddell in their first fight if I'm not mistaken.
Thanks  I had written that in there but it got deleted along with some other stuff.
SicJits, I also just want to say again that I'm not trying to start an insult war here or anything. I just find it laughable how little credit people are lending to Randy Couture and how much credit they are extending to Gonzaga. The guy is good, no doubt. How good? We've yet to see that.
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"It is a shame that in this society we've been taught to judge a man's worth by what he owns instead of who he is." - Evan Tanner
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Post #44 8/24/07 6:13:04PM
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KissMyBallz
MMA Regular
Career record: 4-6
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Lodi, CA
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He can KO Randy. Randy has been KO'd twice by a LHW and has proven he can leave himself open.
If GG can time it right? Lights out for Randy.
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Post #45 8/24/07 7:55:24PM
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