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thepunisher

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I just want to see the best fighters face the best fighters. I do agree with GG getting a shot at the belt he did KO Cro Cop. Why Randy got a title shot is beyond me. I know at that point the UFC HW division was weak but come on

Last edited 7/20/07 1:42PM server time by thepunisher
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Post #31   7/20/07 1:41:59PM   

richieb19

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Posted by nellyhiphophead

ared you crazy name one ufc pay-per-view besides 72 that didn't have big names on it. yeah some of the undercard don't have all big names but thats how you make names. if they never gave ppl a chance to become a name they wouldn't have any names. stop your crying and if you hate it that much and dont' think they are worth it then go to the bar and watch them or get off the bangwagen. you should be happy with what you get compared to a few years ago.



I'll compare 72 to any random event... lets go with UFC 36. I'll rate each fight from 1-5.

UFC 72:
Dustin Hazelett/Steven Lynch (Not UFC quality) (2)
Eddie Sanchez/Colin Robinson (An obvious rebound for Sanchez) (2)
Marcus Davis/Jason Tan (A gimme for Davis) (2)
Ed Herman/Scott Smith (Decent matchup) (3)
Tyson Griffin/Clay Guida (Great matchup) (4)
Jason MacDonald/Rory Singer (An obvious rebound for MacDonald) (2)
Forrest Griffin/Hector Ramirez (And obvious rebound for Griffin) (2)
Rich Franklin/Yushin Okami (Great matchup) (4)

Overall: 2.625

UFC 36:
Sean Sherk /Jutaro Nakao (3)
Matt Serra/Kelly Dullanty (2)
Frank Mir/Pete Williams (3)
Evan Tanner/Elvis Sinosic (3)
Matt Lindland/Pat Miletich (4)
Matt Hughes/Hayato Sakurai (5)
Pedro Rizzo/Andrei Arlovski (4)
Josh Barnett/Randy Couture (5)

Overall: 3.625

...and also, when did the UFC become a proving ground for lesser fighters? You say that if they don't bring in new fighters then they can't make names, I disagree... They've brought in plenty of big names from all over the globe, but on 72 alone people like Jason Tan, who I've never heard of before and hasn't beaten anyone worth mentioning make it to the UFC... Listen, I'm all for bringing in more fighters, but if the UFC is the biggest and best organization in the world, then they should be bringing in talent, not stepping stones... if you wanna watch new fighters switch it up a bit and watch KOTC...

Post #32   7/20/07 2:00:45PM   

szucconi

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Posted by richieb19

I'll compare 72 to any random event... lets go with UFC 36. I'll rate each fight from 1-5.

UFC 72:
Dustin Hazelett/Steven Lynch (Not UFC quality) (2)
Eddie Sanchez/Colin Robinson (An obvious rebound for Sanchez) (2)
Marcus Davis/Jason Tan (A gimme for Davis) (2)
Ed Herman/Scott Smith (Decent matchup) (3)
Tyson Griffin/Clay Guida (Great matchup) (4)
Jason MacDonald/Rory Singer (An obvious rebound for MacDonald) (2)
Forrest Griffin/Hector Ramirez (And obvious rebound for Griffin) (2)
Rich Franklin/Yushin Okami (Great matchup) (4)

Overall: 2.625

UFC 36:
Sean Sherk /Jutaro Nakao (3)
Matt Serra/Kelly Dullanty (2)
Frank Mir/Pete Williams (3)
Evan Tanner/Elvis Sinosic (3)
Matt Lindland/Pat Miletich (4)
Matt Hughes/Hayato Sakurai (5)
Pedro Rizzo/Andrei Arlovski (4)
Josh Barnett/Randy Couture (5)

Overall: 3.625

...and also, when did the UFC become a proving ground for lesser fighters? You say that if they don't bring in new fighters then they can't make names, I disagree... They've brought in plenty of big names from all over the globe, but on 72 alone people like Jason Tan, who I've never heard of before and hasn't beaten anyone worth mentioning make it to the UFC... Listen, I'm all for bringing in more fighters, but if the UFC is the biggest and best organization in the world, then they should be bringing in talent, not stepping stones... if you wanna watch new fighters switch it up a bit and watch KOTC...



I can't say I disagree with all of your ratings, but it is unfair in a few respects. UFC 72 was a show soon after two other shows. 72 was about 20 day after 71. about 4 days after a fight night and a week before the TUF finale. UFC 36 was over two months after UFC 35 and about two months before UFC 37. Having more cards makes the card strength suffer. You should compare all the MMA in a two month period now and then. I think the UFC 72 card was disappointing, but only because it didn't have a huge main event. They made a mistake with this card. It was going to be free on spike (It would have been a great free card), but then it switched for some unknown reason. It was booked with the intent of being free and before the Pride deal was complete.

Post #33   7/20/07 2:21:10PM   

richieb19

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Posted by szucconi

I can't say I disagree with all of your ratings, but it is unfair in a few respects. UFC 72 was a show soon after two other shows. 72 was about 20 day after 71. about 4 days after a fight night and a week before the TUF finale. UFC 36 was over two months after UFC 35 and about two months before UFC 37. Having more cards makes the card strength suffer. You should compare all the MMA in a two month period now and then. I think the UFC 72 card was disappointing, but only because it didn't have a huge main event. They made a mistake with this card. It was going to be free on spike (It would have been a great free card), but then it switched for some unknown reason. It was booked with the intent of being free and before the Pride deal was complete.

I agree that they're having the ppv's much closer together, and it does become more difficult to keep a higher overall standard. However there is no reason to feed no name, non-established fighters to fighters they think they can market, ala Davis/Tan. With the depth of the current divisions, I see no reason why their can't be more evenly matched bouts... and also they should use their UFN shows to try and promote new UFC talent, not main ppv cards...

Post #34   7/20/07 2:41:01PM   

szucconi

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Posted by richieb19

I agree that they're having the ppv's much closer together, and it does become more difficult to keep a higher overall standard. However there is no reason to feed no name, non-established fighters to fighters they think they can market, ala Davis/Tan. With the depth of the current divisions, I see no reason why their can't be more evenly matched bouts... and also they should use their UFN shows to try and promote new UFC talent, not main ppv cards...



I can agree with that, but I think you are over stating the situation. They do bring in guys without the credibility, but they get something out of it. They get highlight or surprise gems. Tell me that you though Doug Evens had a chance v. Huerta at the TUF 6 finale. Then he goes out and wins the first round. Let me break down your overview of 72.

UFC 72:
Dustin Hazelett/Steven Lynch (Not UFC quality) (2) - I agree, sucky fight.
Eddie Sanchez/Colin Robinson (An obvious rebound for Sanchez) (2) - Agree with the rating, but disagree with the rebound statement, Robinson was a local guy with a winning record. He had little chance, but he was on the card for marketing purposes.
Marcus Davis/Jason Tan (A gimme for Davis) (2) - Agree. Tan is a no body. They booked this fight to get the crowd pumped. Let the Irish see and Irish guy KO someone. Stupid match up, but it was for marketing.
Ed Herman/Scott Smith (Decent matchup) (3) - agree
Tyson Griffin/Clay Guida (Great matchup) (4) - maybe a 5, but I can see 4
Jason MacDonald/Rory Singer (An obvious rebound for MacDonald) (2) - Rebound maybe, but Singer has some good wins. They are on the card because they are TUF guys, but it should not have been televised.
Forrest Griffin/Hector Ramirez (And obvious rebound for Griffin) (2) - I disagree with this completely. I think Ramirez is the same caliber fighter as Forrest and that it is a good match up, but it shouldn't have been right before the main event.
Rich Franklin/Yushin Okami (Great matchup) (4) - I loved this fight on paper. I think Okami would take a rematch, but it is not a main event. It can't carry a PPV, but it was for a title shot.

Last edited 7/20/07 3:03PM server time by szucconi
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Post #35   7/20/07 3:03:15PM   

LR

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Okami-Franklin is not a 4. It was awesome looking on paper, but it was rather dull till the final round. Okami had one damn submission attempt and was horrible at trying to impose his will on Franklin and push him to the ground. I'd say 72 was a huge disappointment, even the card on paper was a disappointment, we were lucky to even get the Guida/Griffin fight.

Post #36   7/20/07 3:14:33PM   

spider1179

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This whole argument is over done. UFC is attempting to market themselves to a completely new market. While most of us see some of these matches as weak, the general public (the market the UFC is reaching out to) does not. 72 was not the norm compaired to the rest of the recent UFC events. The amount of talent on each card has been great. What has been even better has been the entertainment level produced at most of these events.

The UFC could just match up big names against big names, but some people will just continue to complain. This will also not serve the purpose of creating more marketable fighters.

Post #37   7/20/07 4:55:41PM   

Eazee_E

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UFC 72 is more the exception than the rule from here on out. Almost all of those guys were on the card because they had some sort of connection to Europe. It was more about appealing to the newer market more than it was trying to make a stacked card. I'm not saying thats what us viewers really want, but it makes money.

Post #38   7/20/07 5:16:59PM   

richieb19

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Posted by LR

Okami-Franklin is not a 4. It was awesome looking on paper, but it was rather dull till the final round. Okami had one damn submission attempt and was horrible at trying to impose his will on Franklin and push him to the ground. I'd say 72 was a huge disappointment, even the card on paper was a disappointment, we were lucky to even get the Guida/Griffin fight.

I'm not talking about how the fight went...

Post #39   7/20/07 5:32:02PM   

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i agrre also

Post #40   8/23/07 12:39:44AM   

pv3Hpv3p

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At some point we have to realize that big name vs big name does not always yeild exiting fights... For example AA vs Werdum...

Here's a Richie test for and older UFC card:

OLD UFC:

Tony De Souza vs Paul Rodriguez (1)... Who's Paul Rodriguez? (TDS by sub less than 2 min)

Ricco vs AA(4)... great fight (TKO Riccio, early rd 3)

Matyushenko vs Kondo(3)... UD for Vladdy, Kondo never lived up to his pancrase reputation, IMO

Uno vs Iha(2)... Iha might have a name, but his only credible win was against a 22 y/o Yves. He is not in the same class as Uno (Uno TKO rd 1)

Militech vs Shonie Carter(3)... Once again, Shonie's got a name but has never been a very consistent fighter... I gave it a 3 cause I like Pat (Pat KO rd 2

Barnnett vs Schilt(2)... Barnett is a top level HVY and Semmy while a great kickboxer has never been that great of a MMArtist (Barney sub rd 1)

BJ vs Din(4)... Although I think this fight might be closer to a 5 now... Then it was a mostly unproven Din vs BJ in his 2nd or 3rd fight (my point is back then this fight didn't mean much to fans)... I'd like to see a rematch of this though (BJ TKO rd 1)

Tito vs Elvis Sinosec(1)... Elvis came into this fight 4-3-1... and this was a title fight... I was being generous with the 1

Average fight: 2.5

take it for what it's worth, but you can disect all sorts of cards from the past and it won't give an accurate account of what was happening then. Hindsight is always 20-20... Did we know when we watched this that however many years later, Din would be in the running for the LW title... Or that Penn would topple the unstoppable Matt Hughes... Did we know AA would be champ, and Ricco would be a coke head... The only thing that we could be sure of was Shonie's rediculous shorts.

Post #41   8/23/07 12:02:33PM   
 
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