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Nogueira vs Herring

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hippysmacker

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Posted by DevonFoxy

I really dont think Herring knew the extent of how dazed Nog was and he didn't want to rush in and get submitted. i mean I'm sure herring thought he was dazed but when the ref didn't stop it I'm sure he figured he must be ok and theres no way he wants to be down there with Nog. The funny thing is if herring did go for the kill and he got submitted everyone would be calling him an idiot for rushing in too fast. so i mean it was a good fight that kick pretty much reminded me of Rashad's kick to salmon but with out the complete knock out part. Nog was dazed for sure and i honestly think Herring had no idea how bad it was for Nog as Nog has a granite chin and on top of being the magician of submission i think Herring was just trying to play it safe.



I agree. Also, Nog was still trying to kick him away and defending with one hand. Most of those punches didn't land solid. He was oviously rocked and admitted it after the figh, but he dove into that weak kick. It was his own momentum that hurt him. I think Herring will be kicking himself for a long time, but hindsight is always 20/20.

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Post #16   7/8/07 5:46:49PM   

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Posted by Aether

Nogueira didn't really perform badly at all IMO... Heath is a good fighter and it's not the first time he's been able to fight through nog's sub attempts to a decision. I thought Minotauro did a good job on his feet and on the ground. Plenty of close sub attempts and some nice boxing other than getting caught with that one kick.

Heath is an idiot for not capitalizing though. He really should've had that fight in the bag at the end of round one. He was probably thinking "I am completely retarded" once that fight was over. Maybe he just got a little cocky after getting a few good shots in and figured he could finish him later.



I second that.. I was actually impressed with Nog, he pushed the pace with a guy thats bigger then him, he displayed big improvements in his boxing and standup game, he showed that he can recover from serious damage, and he showed his good takedowns and incredible ground game..

Now that Nog has a feel for the cage, he will be only better in his next fight.. I wouldn't mind seeing a rematch with Cro Cop, Mirko was beating Nog badly the 1st time until falling victim to that slick armbar..

Post #17   7/8/07 7:15:09PM   

KillaMed87

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I think Heath made a big mistake, he had the fight won. All he had to do was hit Nog about 4 more times and the fight was over. That wasn't too bright.

Last edited 7/8/07 7:49PM server time by hippysmacker
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Post #18   7/8/07 7:46:34PM   

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Herring is as tough as they come.

But he's had a lot of back luck lately
Pride stopped believing in him after a couple of Nog losses and a Fedor
Add in Mirko and you got bad luck right there.

Getting Nog so early was tough
Getting Heath so early was tough for Nog
They know each others game.

For them to show their stuff they shoulda got a couple of jobbers first.
I geuss the UFC wants them to earn their money.

The point is who ever steps in the octagon with these guys is in for the battle of his life.

Sure it was a but lack luster from the usual Nog Heath level.
But these guys could punch each other for days and neither would go down for the count.

It was a great fight
My favorite of the night

Thanks

Last edited 7/8/07 10:37PM server time by GDK
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Post #19   7/8/07 10:35:39PM   

SaevusAntistes68

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HH should have been dropping bombs on Big Nog before the double-bounce.

Post #20   7/8/07 10:44:27PM   

richieb19

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Posted by Destroyer88

Herring vs. Arlovski would be VERY interesting to see. Herring could test Arlovskis chin and I wouldnt call it out of this world if Herring KOed Arlovski. But Andrei would be smart to take it to the ground where Herring is at his weakest, and try for a submission.



How do you figure Herring is at his weakest on the ground? In his entire career he has only ever been submitted once, and that was by Nogueira (who is often considered as the best HW on the mat, who he has now fought 3 times) in their second fight. Herring is one of the most well rounded Heavyweight fighters in the world IMHO, however if I had to class him as a grappler or a striker, he would easily fall into the grappler pool... did you never notice that he keeps his lead hand down all the time?

Post #21   7/8/07 10:48:12PM   

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I am convinced that the fight would have a different conclusion under a different official. Yves Lavigne is slower to respond to the action than Big John, even when a fighter is tapping out ala Florian/Robinson. Being that as it may, it still doesn't excuse Herring for not finishing that fight. You can argue that when Nog went down Herring was unaware how hurt he actually was, but from the time Nog stood back up until 2-3 minutes into the 2nd round, it was clearly evident that he had yet to fully recover. Nog is the better fighter so why let him recover?
A losing UFC debut to Jake O'Brien followed by a decision with Brad Imes? Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't put Herring in a HW Top 10 but he has fought some of the best in MMA and should have won those fights convincingly. What happened to the Herring who put Nakao on a stretcher for a little peck on the lips during staredowns, because that Herring would have put Nog away like Gonzaga did to Cro-Cop.

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Post #22   7/9/07 2:42:13AM   

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Posted by richieb19


Posted by Destroyer88

Herring vs. Arlovski would be VERY interesting to see. Herring could test Arlovskis chin and I wouldnt call it out of this world if Herring KOed Arlovski. But Andrei would be smart to take it to the ground where Herring is at his weakest, and try for a submission.



How do you figure Herring is at his weakest on the ground? In his entire career he has only ever been submitted once, and that was by Nogueira (who is often considered as the best HW on the mat, who he has now fought 3 times) in their second fight. Herring is one of the most well rounded Heavyweight fighters in the world IMHO, however if I had to class him as a grappler or a striker, he would easily fall into the grappler pool... did you never notice that he keeps his lead hand down all the time?



I agree. I think Herring's grappling skills are underrated. He is one of the few who is comfortable giving up his back. He usually either reverses , rolls underneath ,or out the backdoor. Against Fedor he kept trying to escape, but Fedor had already hurt him and was just too relentless to let him escape.

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Post #23   7/9/07 2:50:42AM   

tomp6581

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I think it is fair to say that the fight COULD have been stopped in the 1st after the head kick (I wouldnt go as far as "should have" simply because of how herring responded). Although Big Nog did controlled the fight from the start, i wasnt too impressed with him....I thought he looked slower than usual (maybe due to the size of the octagon compared to the ring) and looked softer than usual. I would want to see him in a coulple more fights against better fighters before he gets a title shot (only if he where to carry one winning of course)



Post #24   7/9/07 6:55:11AM   

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I will say this. I think Nog won all3 rounds. I re watched that fight today, and that head kick came with 34 seconds left in the first. I thought Nog was kicking butt up till then.

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“Never violate a woman, nor harm a child. Do not lie ,cheat ,or steal.for selfish gain. These things are for lesser men. Protect the weak against the evil strong. And never allow thoughts of gain to lead you into the pursuit of evil. Never back away from an enemy. Either fight or surrender. It is not enough to say I will not be evil. Evil must be fought wherever it is found.”
The Iron Code

Post #25   7/9/07 10:13:22PM   

Aether

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I think the fact that he was SO badly hurt gave him that round though. Generally I would agree that the fighter who won the longer portion should be given the round, but in an instance like this where Nog was basically saved by the bell I have to give the round to herring, simply because he was dazed to the point where if there were no breaks it seems unlikely that he'd have been able to gather his senses.

Post #26   7/10/07 2:21:07AM   

tomp6581

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Posted by Aether

I think the fact that he was SO badly hurt gave him that round though. Generally I would agree that the fighter who won the longer portion should be given the round, but in an instance like this where Nog was basically saved by the bell I have to give the round to herring, simply because he was dazed to the point where if there were no breaks it seems unlikely that he'd have been able to gather his senses.



I agree. Dispite Big Nogs domination of the 1st round......Herring did the most damage. On another point....I always forget just how big Herring is! wasnt he 258 or something......and he isnt exacly fat either.

Post #27   7/10/07 11:04:12AM   

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Posted by CanadianCripplr

At the time I thought he wanted nog to stand up because he thought he couldnt. He wanted the ref to see he was wobbly.
Im thinking now that it seems a little funny he didnt go for the kill. Many conspiracies as to possible reasons. None good. Strange, imo.



That's what I saw...He was arguing with the ref at the end of the round trying to tell him he should have stopped the fight - but that was a big, dumb mistake.

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Post #28   7/10/07 2:35:23PM   

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Posted by tomp6581


Posted by Aether

I think the fact that he was SO badly hurt gave him that round though. Generally I would agree that the fighter who won the longer portion should be given the round, but in an instance like this where Nog was basically saved by the bell I have to give the round to herring, simply because he was dazed to the point where if there were no breaks it seems unlikely that he'd have been able to gather his senses.



I agree. Dispite Big Nogs domination of the 1st round......Herring did the most damage. On another point....I always forget just how big Herring is! wasnt he 258 or something......and he isnt exacly fat either.




He was gassed in the 3rd though

Post #29   7/10/07 3:05:14PM   

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Posted by hippysmacker

I will say this. I think Nog won all3 rounds. I re watched that fight today, and that head kick came with 34 seconds left in the first. I thought Nog was kicking butt up till then.


I agree. My roommate argued that Herring had inflicted more punishment, but I didn't think so. Herring's only damaging shot was the one, big one. But at the end of the round, I wasn't convinced that Nogueira had taken more punishment than Herring had. Nogueira convincingly controlled the fight for 4 minutes, 30 seconds of the 1st round and Herring convincingly controlled the fight for the other 30 seconds.

Post #30   7/10/07 3:06:15PM   
 
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