Nick Diaz requests fight with Frank Shamrock |
| Posted By |
Message |
Laying down the beats
Career record: 192-150
Season: 37-33 (#1810)
Location: Canada
|
I think he's sticking it to the UFC. I think he really hates Dana and wants to spite him any way he can and getting big paycheques outside of the UFC is one way to do it.
I didn't hear him say those words. I only saw them typed so I am not going to pretend that I know how he said them (in jest or not). A lot of fighters say those kinds of comments. Are you one to question the heart of all those fighters? How do separate lack of heart and humility?
To me questioning someone's heart is like questioning their faith. How the fuck do you know what they feel?
In my opinion Frank will keep fighting for a few years as long as he is 'healthy', but I don't think he'll fight inthe UFC again, not because he has no heart, but because he seems to hate the UFC.
_______________________________________
MMA Playground Ninja Moderator - Be cool and follow forum conduct or you'll be banned and all you will see is a puff of smoke. Members banned - 31, IPs banned - 19
|
|
Post #31 6/27/07 5:44:22PM
|
|
|
He's Back...
Career record: 163-86
Season: 0-0 (#9125)
Location: Sacramento, CA
|
Posted by Rush
Is that the same C Gracie that got KTFO by Frank?
right back atcha...
I dont see how him getting Ko'ed is relevant to Cesar's skills where TEACHING BJJ are considered. Has nothing to do with that fight. Hes a well respected teacher, and getting a black belt under a gracie isnt exactly easy.
_______________________________________
Riding the James Thompson WarWagon all the way to the top!
Official James Thompson Forums
*RETIRED*
|
|
Post #32 6/27/07 5:44:59PM
|
slapshot
MMA Regular
Career record: 128-73
Season: 31-14 (#4259)
Location:
|
Posted by cowcatcher
has it really been that long since frank was considered the best lb for lb in the world? now he just seems like an afterthought to most people. i dont see him losing to diaz, diaz is incredibly talented, but i think hes a little small for frank, and size really matters in the cage.
It has and thats one reason Id pick diaz, sorry to all the shamrock fans but nick is too skilled and shamrock is too old IMO.
|
|
Post #33 6/27/07 6:34:34PM
|
pv3Hpv3p
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 197-141
Season: 37-33 (#2654)
Location: East St. Paul, MN
|
Posted by Rush
Is that the same C Gracie that got KTFO by Frank?
Do you honestly think that is a valid statement when I was obviously comparing Nick and Jeremy's ground skills? 
C'mon... that's just stoopid 
|
|
Post #34 6/27/07 6:38:42PM
|
Get Ready 2 Get KTFO!
Career record: 223-123
Season: 45-25 (#628)
Location: Texas
|
Nick is a GREAT fighter!....he can go up against Fedor and not get dominated.....he is GREAT in all areas similar to BJ Penn,but with longer reach and better stamina...
Alot of people think Nick has no power in his hands,but im sure they hurt alot more than it seems....there has to be a reason why fighters dont like to engage with him....he must naturally just have heavy hands...he knocked Robbie Lawler out with a straight right,ant had Gomi retreating,and shooting for takedowns because of "weak" punches?......Nick Diaz will just have more power at a higher weight,and if you see recent video on Nick he is really plumped up and looks to be like at 180 right now.
Nick is no Baroni.....Nick talks smack,but he can back it up.
Nick Diaz 3rd Round TKO.....I see Nick stopping Frank similar to how he stopped Gleison Tibau
_______________________________________
Favorite Fighter...
"(UFCmania): So pot is ok for fighters?"
" Hell yeah! The shit has healing powers. I would recommend pot for any fighter. Especially the ones that drink. You can’t get bombed and expect to be 100% the next day but if you had a joint you would be 110%. Most of those fucking guys are popping Vicodin and drinking and before you know it they’re crashing."
- Nick Diaz
originalconspiracy - "I'll leave the team if BJ Penn wins" (vs GSP)
|
|
Post #35 6/27/07 6:44:21PM
|
Laying down the beats
Career record: 192-150
Season: 37-33 (#1810)
Location: Canada
|
Posted by pv3Hpv3p
Do you honestly think that is a valid statement when I was obviously comparing Nick and Jeremy's ground skills?
C'mon... that's just stoopid
I think you missed your own point. You said "after all he's a CG black belt"
The point I was trying to make with my facetious comment was that Carlos Gracie (the teacher) obviously has (more than) a black belt in BJJ, but he still lost. I have a lot of respect for the Gracies. In fact, I've been a noble fan since the early 90s, but in no way do I think a black belt under any Gracie guarantees anything.
Posted by rcg916
right back atcha...
I dont see how him getting Ko'ed is relevant to Cesar's skills where TEACHING BJJ are considered. Has nothing to do with that fight. Hes a well respected teacher, and getting a black belt under a gracie isnt exactly easy.
Stop being so presumptuous. I never questioned his teaching ability. Read the above statement a couple times to make sure you understand it.
_______________________________________
MMA Playground Ninja Moderator - Be cool and follow forum conduct or you'll be banned and all you will see is a puff of smoke. Members banned - 31, IPs banned - 19
|
|
Post #36 6/27/07 10:20:27PM
|
Laying down the beats
Career record: 192-150
Season: 37-33 (#1810)
Location: Canada
|
Posted by slapshot
It has and thats one reason Id pick diaz, sorry to all the shamrock fans but nick is too skilled and shamrock is too old IMO.
He's only 34.
_______________________________________
MMA Playground Ninja Moderator - Be cool and follow forum conduct or you'll be banned and all you will see is a puff of smoke. Members banned - 31, IPs banned - 19
|
|
Post #37 6/27/07 10:22:06PM
|
DJDark41
Belt Contender
Career record: 173-112
Season: 43-27 (#1925)
Location: New York
|
I think Diaz is a total asswhipe. Both Nate and Nick. Nate was pissed about the UFC not letting his brother corner him? Maybe he shouldn't smoke pot and get suspended. I just want someone to smack Nick Diaz around and put him back in his place. Take Nick Diaz off the pot, and let Frank Shamrock break a limb.
Last edited 6/27/07 11:40PM by DJDark41
Edit note/reason: n/a
|
|
Post #38 6/27/07 11:39:29PM
|
dionmcalister
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 31-11
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Lethbridge AB Canada
|
Nick Diaz via gogoplata 3rd round.
|
|
Post #39 6/28/07 12:10:51AM
|
nibrack11
Banned
Career record: 84-40
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: washington
|
i think nick diaz will win he is pretty good.
|
|
Post #40 6/28/07 12:23:58AM
|
pv3Hpv3p
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 197-141
Season: 37-33 (#2654)
Location: East St. Paul, MN
|
Posted by Rush
I think you missed your own point. You said "after all he's a CG black belt"
If you read the entire post, as appose to the last line, I was reffering to Nicks jits vs Horns... Not that being a gracie jjbb was the end all be all of MMA... just so you don't have to go back:
YOU I don't see how this is relevant since Horn was an expert grappler back then. So unless Frank magically lost his skill, I don't see how Diaz has any technical advantage over him in any aspect of fighting.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ME I don't think it would be too far a stretch to say Horn and Diaz's ground skills are at least comparable... After all the guy is a C.Gracie BB
If I wasn't clear, I was addressing your claim that Nick and Jeremy don't compare when it comes to grappling, or that Diaz isn't an "expert grappler"... And for the sake of arguement Horn put up a great fight against a man that was about as highly touted as NHB fighters were back then... And let's not get into the MMath thing... Didn't Sinosec triangle Horn??
The point I was trying to make with my facetious comment was that Carlos Gracie (the teacher) obviously has (more than) a black belt in BJJ, but he still lost.
Maybe you're not seeing your own point... The fact that Cesar Gracie was KO'd in the first minutes of a fight, does not relfect on the man's BJJ... Which I was reffering to in my post...
I have a lot of respect for the Gracies. In fact, I've been a noble fan since the early 90s, but in no way do I think a black belt under any Gracie guarantees anything.
I wouldn't question your respect and/or admiration for the Gracie family and what they've done for the sport of MMA, but I'd appreciate if you didn't take what I say out of context to try and prove an invalid point
Last edited 6/28/07 3:17AM by pv3Hpv3p
Edit note/reason: grammer
|
|
Post #41 6/28/07 3:14:55AM
|
Laying down the beats
Career record: 192-150
Season: 37-33 (#1810)
Location: Canada
|
Posted by pv3Hpv3p
If you read the entire post, as appose to the last line, I was reffering to Nicks jits vs Horns... Not that being a gracie jjbb was the end all be all of MMA... just so you don't have to go back:
YOU I don't see how this is relevant since Horn was an expert grappler back then. So unless Frank magically lost his skill, I don't see how Diaz has any technical advantage over him in any aspect of fighting.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ME I don't think it would be too far a stretch to say Horn and Diaz's ground skills are at least comparable... After all the guy is a C.Gracie BB
If I wasn't clear, I was addressing your claim that Nick and Jeremy don't compare when it comes to grappling, or that Diaz isn't an "expert grappler"... And for the sake of arguement Horn put up a great fight against a man that was about as highly touted as NHB fighters were back then... And let's not get into the MMath thing... Didn't Sinosec triangle Horn??
Maybe you're not seeing your own point... The fact that Cesar Gracie was KO'd in the first minutes of a fight, does not relfect on the man's BJJ... Which I was reffering to in my post...
I wouldn't question your respect and/or admiration for the Gracie family and what they've done for the sport of MMA, but I'd appreciate if you didn't take what I say out of context to try and prove an invalid point
If you want to talk about taking things out of context. I never once compared Horn and Diaz's BJJ. The original comment made by whomever (it's not important) was that Frank's ground game was in question or that it was a long time ago (and thus irrelevant) because he beat Horn 10 years ago. I'm not sure what the comment was because it wasn't stated clearly.
If by me saying that Franks ground game was good enough to submit Horn is by any means a comparison between Diaz's and Horn's ground games, you are mistaken. It was actually YOU that compared Horn's and Diaz's ground games (look above where you quoted yourself.).
My original point (and I will paraphrase it for you) was that Frank was able to submit a very good grappler and thus his ground game is not all that bad. Therefore, I don't see Diaz having a real technical advantage. If you think Horn's and Diaz's ground games are comparable (which you seem to be saying in your above statement), how can you argue my statement that Diaz doesn't have a technical advantage on the ground? How is that saying Diaz is not an expert grappler? How is that using MMath as you alluded to in your above post?
The answers to those questions should be:
-You can't
-It's not
-It's not
If you want to talk about invalid points, look no further than your comment about Cesar Gracie, which is why I made the comment about Frank knocking him out. In no place did I write that Frank beat Cesar (sorry I wrote Carlos above and meant Cesar) so he can beat Diaz. Or that Frank's BJJ is better than Cesar's because he knocked him out. If I wanted to say that I would've wrote it, but both of us know that is bullshit, hence why I didn't write it. You just assumed that is what I meant.
If the only point you wanted to make about Diaz having good BJJ was that he's a black belt in BJJ, then why did you make an effort to say he is a CG black belt? To me you wanted to emphasize that fact. If it was so irrelevant in terms of everything I said, what makes it any more relevant to your statement? Hence why I made the statement about the KO.
I really think you should read what people write before accusing them of making invalid points. It seems to me you are assuming what a point is when really my point is what I wrote.
I will summarize my points that I made before this thread became a real mess. Almost all of these are verbatim from the thread:
1) I don't think he [Nick] has the stand-up power to match Frank and I don't see Nick's wrestling strong enough to hold Frank down.
2) If Frank could submit someone like Jeremy Horn, I don't see Nick's BJJ being any huge advantage.
3) I don't see how Diaz has any technical advantage over him in any aspect of fighting.
4) Frank is not that old at age 34
5) I do not question Frank's heart to fight
6) I think Frank will KO/TKO Diaz if they fight
Last edited 6/28/07 9:42AM by Rush
Edit note/reason: n/a
_______________________________________
MMA Playground Ninja Moderator - Be cool and follow forum conduct or you'll be banned and all you will see is a puff of smoke. Members banned - 31, IPs banned - 19
|
|
Post #42 6/28/07 9:40:31AM
|
pv3Hpv3p
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 197-141
Season: 37-33 (#2654)
Location: East St. Paul, MN
|
I apologize... I wasn't clear in my statement... I think Horn is a great grappler, but I think Nick is better. His fight against Shamrock was very early in his career, and I think that Diaz's skill now are better than Horn's were then... I admit I haven't seen alot of Horn's recent fights, but I'm sure he's kept up with his grappling so that statement might not translate to the present.
I guess the reason that I said he was a CGBB, was just to add more info into the statement... I don't think Cesar is regarded as the best Gracie when it comes MMA or even their family jits... But I do think that he has a good camp, and is a good teacher... I guess it was more bringing up the fact that he fights at a good camp (Cesar's) and he has his BB (a notable accomplishment)
The only reason I alluded to MMath, was that you made the sarcastic statement about Cesar getting KO'd by Frank... Which has little to do with what we are talking about, and less to do with a fight between Nick and Frank
And just to throw in my final 0.02: IMO, Diaz has the chin and technique to stand with frank. He stood there with Riggs (not a great fighter but a hard hitter) and Lawler and Gomi. While he might not have the power to get the KO, he has the accuracey and gastank to make his standup effective
Diaz has a great ground game, I think that would constitute a technical advantage... And I beleive he's got more drive to fight besides the money... After all he goes out to prove, "He ain't no bitch"
I don't think Franks that old either
And I guess I just disagree with the 5. and 6.
|
|
Post #43 6/28/07 11:24:19AM
|
Laying down the beats
Career record: 192-150
Season: 37-33 (#1810)
Location: Canada
|
Posted by pv3Hpv3p
And just to throw in my final 0.02: IMO, Diaz has the chin and technique to stand with frank. He stood there with Riggs (not a great fighter but a hard hitter) and Lawler and Gomi. While he might not have the power to get the KO, he has the accuracey and gastank to make his standup effective
Diaz has a great ground game, I think that would constitute a technical advantage... And I beleive he's got more drive to fight besides the money... After all he goes out to prove, "He ain't no bitch"
I don't think Franks that old either
And I guess I just disagree with the 5. and 6.
No arguements about Diaz's chin. That kid just doesn't seem to go down, but there are firsts for everything.
glad we cleared everything up for each other.
That's ok if you disagree with me. I am more than happy to agree to disagree.
_______________________________________
MMA Playground Ninja Moderator - Be cool and follow forum conduct or you'll be banned and all you will see is a puff of smoke. Members banned - 31, IPs banned - 19
|
|
Post #44 6/28/07 11:27:30AM
|
pv3Hpv3p
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 197-141
Season: 37-33 (#2654)
Location: East St. Paul, MN
|
Posted by Rush
Posted by pv3Hpv3p
And just to throw in my final 0.02: IMO, Diaz has the chin and technique to stand with frank. He stood there with Riggs (not a great fighter but a hard hitter) and Lawler and Gomi. While he might not have the power to get the KO, he has the accuracey and gastank to make his standup effective
Diaz has a great ground game, I think that would constitute a technical advantage... And I beleive he's got more drive to fight besides the money... After all he goes out to prove, "He ain't no bitch"
I don't think Franks that old either
And I guess I just disagree with the 5. and 6.
No arguements about Diaz's chin. That kid just doesn't seem to go down, but there are firsts for everything.
glad we cleared everything up for each other.
That's ok if you disagree with me. I am more than happy to agree to disagree.
Likewise... It's nice to actually get a little heated discussion without resorting to insults and the such like you find on some other sites
|
|
Post #45 6/28/07 11:43:34AM
|
|
