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Clay Guida wuz robbed, yo.

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grappler0000

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Posted by Stickan

I was very happy with the judges scoring this night. IMO Griffin won that fight.
As everybody else I scored the 1st rd. to Griffin and 2nd to Guida.

In the third Griffin was getting the better and almost dominating the stand-up and also landed a few semi-hard blows on the mat. Up until about 2:30.. the fight was his. Then Guida maintained top control for the rest of the fight but IMO did nothing with it. He didn't land any significant strikes and wasn't close with any submission attempts.
In the end he flurried a bit but that was more of a panic flurry than anything damaging but that was his highlight of the round IMO.

Since people tend to judge on what they last saw they think Guida won that fight but I agree with the judges.
Griffin controlled the first half standing up
Guida controlled the latter half on the ground.
The difference is that Griffin did more damage and was more active in my opinion.



Agreed!

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Post #16   6/17/07 7:48:31AM   

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Posted by EvilScott

"Robbed" implies a clear-cut victory that is blatantly given to the wrong fighter. That fight was much too close to be a "robbery". It could have gone either way.


Exactly!

Post #17   6/17/07 9:13:33AM   

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Posted by Trapt1nw0nder


Posted by johny_rotten


Posted by Stickan

I was very happy with the judges scoring this night. IMO Griffin won that fight.
As everybody else I scored the 1st rd. to Griffin and 2nd to Guida.

In the third Griffin was getting the better and almost dominating the stand-up and also landed a few semi-hard blows on the mat. Up until about 2:30.. the fight was his. Then Guida maintained top control for the rest of the fight but IMO did nothing with it. He didn't land any significant strikes and wasn't close with any submission attempts.
In the end he flurried a bit but that was more of a panic flurry than anything damaging but that was his highlight of the round IMO.

Since people tend to judge on what they last saw they think Guida won that fight but I agree with the judges.
Griffin controlled the first half standing up
Guida controlled the latter half on the ground.
The difference is that Griffin did more damage and was more active in my opinion.



Props to you because that is exacxtly what happend. I don't know why it is that the fans and usually judges only think the last minute of a round is what is important? Tyson controlled the round longer taking the fist 3 minutes, and Clay came on for the final two.

Either way this was a great fight, the only one of the night, and there will be no real loser. Both will be back in the UFC, and a rematch could be very apealing.



I totally agree too...Props Stickan

I was gonna say the same,but you beat me to if

Props to Guida too for putting on a hell of a show,and for not complaining at the slightest about the decision even though everyone was booing the decision........I gotta admit,i had Guida winning the last 2 rounds too till i watched the fight again,and the Judges only had 1 look at it...........im sure you noticed that Griffin had won most of the 3rd after rewatching it too(Stickan) just how i did......by saying exactly how griffin started losing at the 2;30 mark.



Naw, havn't rewatched it yet since I watched it about 3-4 am. this morning. It was just that when Guida turned the tables I watched the clock to see how much was remaining in the round and if he had time to still win the fight.
I'm very surprised that Goldberg and especially Rogan were giving it to Guida. I think Goldbergs many comments about "if Guida continues like this he should win the fight, right Joe?" influenced Rogan a bit in the end.

Post #18   6/17/07 9:56:12AM   

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Posted by AchillesHeel

No, really. I was genuinely shocked when they gave it to Griffin. Clay took the 2nd and 3rd rounds, I thought. I just dunno sometimes...


p.s. It was a great fight. I wasn't disappointed by the decision, just surprised. Looking at this card on paper, I actually thought this might be the best fight of the night, and boy-howdy! The Lightweight division is ka-razy right now.

Post #19   6/17/07 10:23:26AM   

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Posted by Stickan

I was very happy with the judges scoring this night. IMO Griffin won that fight.
As everybody else I scored the 1st rd. to Griffin and 2nd to Guida.

In the third Griffin was getting the better and almost dominating the stand-up and also landed a few semi-hard blows on the mat. Up until about 2:30.. the fight was his. Then Guida maintained top control for the rest of the fight but IMO did nothing with it. He didn't land any significant strikes and wasn't close with any submission attempts.
In the end he flurried a bit but that was more of a panic flurry than anything damaging but that was his highlight of the round IMO.

Since people tend to judge on what they last saw they think Guida won that fight but I agree with the judges.
Griffin controlled the first half standing up
Guida controlled the latter half on the ground.
The difference is that Griffin did more damage and was more active in my opinion.




Very nice post. Guida did absolutely nothing with top control. In my opinion too much credit is given to a fighter for simply getting a take down. I don't think take downs should count for anything if you do nothing with them.

Post #20   6/17/07 10:36:46AM   

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Posted by chiefwiggum

In my opinion too much credit is given to a fighter for simply getting a take down. I don't think take downs should count for anything if you do nothing with them.


I agree with you to a point, but I think you're going too far with it.

Controlling your opponent is - and should be, imo - part of the game. Clay Guida's performance wasn't unlike Forest Griffin's, in that respect. The main difference between the two fights was that Tyson Griffin was light-years better than Hector Ramirez.

It sometimes seems like wrestling is over-valued when compared to jiu-jitsu, and the argument people make on Tyson's behalf is that Guida actually wasn't controlling the fight. Many people said the same thing about Penn-St. Pierre, which went the other way, and the wrestler got the Decision.

But based on what you're saying here, Jake O'Brien didn't soundly defeat Heath Herring, for instance. That's going overboard, imo.

Post #21   6/17/07 10:52:05AM   

Damien6663

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I scored it 2-1 for clay, cant really see how you could do other wise. yes it was close but clay deff won that fight...im not going to cry to much tho since i picked tyson and was given a gift for my record LOL!

Post #22   6/17/07 10:15:42PM   

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ya, wow is all i can say, i truely think that Guida took all 3 rounds hands down. i said that if Griffin takes it i would be extremely upset. and he did, sure it was a good fight, but Clay was the only one to do anything really.... kinda like the franklin fight for the first 2 rounds.

Post #23   6/17/07 10:58:39PM   

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Posted by u_f_c

ya, wow is all i can say, i truely think that Guida took all 3 rounds hands down. i said that if Griffin takes it i would be extremely upset. and he did, sure it was a good fight, but Clay was the only one to do anything really.... kinda like the franklin fight for the first 2 rounds.



If you thought Guida took the first round, then you were watching a different fight.

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Post #24   6/18/07 4:01:10PM   

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I'm no judge but it looked to me that Guida was the better fighter..

My score: 29-28 Guida

Post #25   6/18/07 4:07:15PM   

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Posted by chiefwiggum


Guida did absolutely nothing with top control. In my opinion too much credit is given to a fighter for simply getting a take down. I don't think take downs should count for anything if you do nothing with them.



But regardless, he had top control... While he might have done nothing, why would you award the round to Tyson, where he equally did nothing, but did while in a less advantageous position?

I thought the fight was really close, and the TD and control in the end of the 3rd gave Guida a close edge... It's kind of the opposite of the split dec that Tito got over Forrest... In that instance the TD was what swung the judges in his favor, and in this fight it didn't count for as much...

It's a shame that judging is inconsistent, but as is life... At least we got to see a good fight, even though I had a ton of cash on Clay (OK, well not a ton but enough to make me yell at the TV when the dec was ruled)

Post #26   6/18/07 4:09:15PM   

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even griffin thought he lost, after the fight he looked tired and dissapointed while Guida was running circles around the octagon. Griffin had the first minute of the 3rd but the rest was Guida, Guida wanted it more and should of got the decision.

Post #27   6/18/07 7:20:05PM   

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I don't know why people always use the argument that the fighter himself thought he lost. When you're in the ring getting hit and throwing punches it may seem strange, but you actually don't have as objective a viewpoint as a bunch of judges sitting on the outside able to view the fight from multiple vantage points. It's no coincidence that all 3 judges scored the bout the same, he won it.

I find myself agreeing with the judges every time there's a debate about a close decision... starnes/leben, this fight, griffin/ortiz... I don't see a lack of consistency at all.

Post #28   6/18/07 9:14:09PM   

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I've watched it 4 times now, great fight, and I still think Stickan had it right. Griffin won the 1rst and 3rd in my book. 29-28 Griffin for me.

Last edited 6/19/07 12:04PM server time by hippysmacker
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Post #29   6/19/07 11:33:38AM   

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Posted by AchillesHeel

No, really. I was genuinely shocked when they gave it to Griffin. Clay took the 2nd and 3rd rounds, I thought. I just dunno sometimes...



I agree. The fight wasn't one sided, but I really felt he deserved the win with no esception.

Post #30   6/19/07 11:56:29AM   
 
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