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Dana White: Rousimar Palhares banned from the UFC

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Kpro

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In before conversation spirals out of control fast.

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Post #31   10/10/13 9:12:35PM   

decken

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Posted by Bustamante-Aoki


Posted by warglory


Posted by Bustamante-Aoki

Also UFC killed all their competition, so they have a (moral) obligation to keep top fighters around and work with them to fix their flaws instead of just cutting them whenever a problem arises. But obviously Dana don't care.



No, they have a moral obligation to maintain the health of their fighters whenever possible.



If a guy doesn't tap you can break his bones. This is mma. You can break bones, It's allowed. Imanari has mangled several ankles. But Palhares didn't crank hard enough to break. He just didn't let go for an extra second or two because he was caught up in the moment. It wasn't THAT unsportsmanlike.

And there are different ways to protect fighters as I mentioned. Cutting isn't the only way. And Pierce is healthy. He walked away from it. Should they cut Nog because he didn't tap, and let MIr break his arm. That would be protecting him, wouldn't it?



Broken bones do not end fight careers. Torn knee ligaments end fight careers. A heel hook is dangerous because it destroys the ligaments in the knee and typically you do not feel any pain until it has already started to do damage. So a second or two makes a big difference.

Post #32   10/10/13 9:16:31PM   

Bustamante-Aoki

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Posted by decken


Posted by Bustamante-Aoki


Posted by warglory


Posted by Bustamante-Aoki

Also UFC killed all their competition, so they have a (moral) obligation to keep top fighters around and work with them to fix their flaws instead of just cutting them whenever a problem arises. But obviously Dana don't care.



No, they have a moral obligation to maintain the health of their fighters whenever possible.



If a guy doesn't tap you can break his bones. This is mma. You can break bones, It's allowed. Imanari has mangled several ankles. But Palhares didn't crank hard enough to break. He just didn't let go for an extra second or two because he was caught up in the moment. It wasn't THAT unsportsmanlike.

And there are different ways to protect fighters as I mentioned. Cutting isn't the only way. And Pierce is healthy. He walked away from it. Should they cut Nog because he didn't tap, and let MIr break his arm. That would be protecting him, wouldn't it?



Broken bones do not end fight careers. Torn knee ligaments end fight careers. A heel hook is dangerous because it destroys the ligaments in the knee and typically you do not feel any pain until it has already started to do damage. So a second or two makes a big difference.



I understand that. If you're cranking hard enough a second or two makes a huge difference. If you're using just enough pressure than the extra second or two won't make much of a difference, hence the reason Pierce got up and walked away from the submission.

If Palhares was being malicious then Pierce wouldn't have walked away. That's my point. He wasn't trying to inflict extra damage. The punishment is too harsh. Feel free to disagree.

Post #33   10/10/13 9:25:09PM   

tallica62

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I finally agree with something Dana White said

Post #34   10/10/13 9:37:49PM   

warglory

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Posted by Bustamante-Aoki


If a guy doesn't tap you can break his bones. This is mma. You can break bones, It's allowed. Imanari has mangled several ankles. But Palhares didn't crank hard enough to break. He just didn't let go for an extra second or two because he was caught up in the moment. It wasn't THAT unsportsmanlike.


And there are different ways to protect fighters as I mentioned. Cutting isn't the only way. And Pierce is healthy. He walked away from it. Should they cut Nog because he didn't tap, and let MIr break his arm. That would be protecting him, wouldn't it?



Paul Daley only landed one measly punch after the bell against Josh Koscheck because he was caught up in the moment, should he be allowed to stay in the UFC?

It was Nog's stupid choice not to tap, Mir did his job. Had Mir did what he did after Nog tapped, he wouldn't be in the UFC anymore either.

Last edited 10/10/13 9:55PM server time by warglory
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Post #35   10/10/13 9:50:57PM   

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Daley's actions were much more unsportsmanlike as the fight had been over for 5 seconds or so when he threw the punch, but the force of the punch was also important. Had he floored Koscheck he would've been suspended from MMA period, for years. Had he tapped him lightly then it wouldn't have mattered. The force, or pressure in Palhares' case was what's more important than the actions.

What if a fighter jokingly holds a choke for an extra second or two, and it's obviously loose, should they automatically be suspended? No, so there's a gray area. It's not black and white. The amount of force being applied matters.

They should've just suspended him, and fined him.

Post #36   10/10/13 10:41:58PM   

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Posted by Bustamante-Aoki

If Palhares was being malicious then Pierce wouldn't have walked away. That's my point. He wasn't trying to inflict extra damage. The punishment is too harsh. Feel free to disagree.



Really that's your argument. Pierce could walk so no foul. This guy a long history of doing just this even before he joined the UFC. The last guy also wasn't so lucky and who is to say he wouldn't do it again because its clear he wont follow the rules. Also what a lot people seam to forget is he was also popped for PEDs his last fight. So now you have a fighter that has done this many times out side of the UFC and now twice in the UFC and just got busted for PEDs his last fight.

Yeah I can totally see fining him and giving him another suspension because it worked the past 2 times. Hey why do anything at all Pierce could walk right.

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Post #37   10/10/13 10:49:17PM   

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Posted by papercut

I think the media is blowing the hold a little out of proportion. He held onto the lock sure but you would think he was cranking it ala babalu/heath. He dropped it quicker than he has previously.



I agree. It was a bit long, but certainly not egregious. Also people, you need to understand the difference between cranking a sub and holding a sub. Palhares HELD for an extra second, but he wasn't torquing it.

On the other hand, hopefully he learned his lesson. I guess it was a repeat offense...

I'm ambivalent actually.

Post #38   10/10/13 10:58:22PM   

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Posted by bjj1605


Posted by papercut

I think the media is blowing the hold a little out of proportion. He held onto the lock sure but you would think he was cranking it ala babalu/heath. He dropped it quicker than he has previously.



I agree. It was a bit long, but certainly not egregious. Also people, you need to understand the difference between cranking a sub and holding a sub. Palhares HELD for an extra second, but he wasn't torquing it.

On the other hand, hopefully he learned his lesson. I guess it was a repeat offense...

I'm ambivalent actually.



Clearly you do not understand the difference between holding a sub and cranking a sub.

Post #39   10/10/13 11:36:15PM   

Webbie

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I can't believe anyone is defending Palhares.

He's done this so many times that it's literally expected of him at this point. That's far too much.

Pierce even spoke about Palhares being a dirty fighter before the fight, and Palhares just went out there and proved Pierce right.

Thank you, Dana. You definitely made the right decision on this one.

Post #40   10/10/13 11:54:07PM   

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Posted by Webbie

I can't believe anyone is defending Palhares.

He's done this so many times that it's literally expected of him at this point. That's far too much.

Pierce even spoke about Palhares being a dirty fighter before the fight, and Palhares just went out there and proved Pierce right.

Thank you, Dana. You definitely made the right decision on this one.



I couldn't agree more. If this was the first time I'd probably be a little upset about the cut but he continues to do stupid things and they all finally caught up to him.

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Post #41   10/11/13 12:11:39AM   

quezocrema0032

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I love the people defending palhares by saying "he wasn't putting THAT much pressure" Did you see Pierce, a tough guy with ZERO history of acting, goofing around, or pretending during fights literally YELL from the pain? I can't believe people are defending Palhares, everyone says he's "simple" & doesn't mean harm he just comes from a poor background, maybe I say he needs to pass some sort of proficiency test to prove he's smart enough to understand what is allowed in an mma or bjj match for that matter since he apparently doesn't let go there either. The ufc made the right call, can't have 1 guy trying to put fighters on the shelf for months because he doesn't understand when to let go.

Last edited 10/11/13 12:45PM server time by quezocrema0032
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Post #42   10/11/13 12:37:33AM   

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Posted by warglory


Posted by Bustamante-Aoki


If a guy doesn't tap you can break his bones. This is mma. You can break bones, It's allowed. Imanari has mangled several ankles. But Palhares didn't crank hard enough to break. He just didn't let go for an extra second or two because he was caught up in the moment. It wasn't THAT unsportsmanlike.


And there are different ways to protect fighters as I mentioned. Cutting isn't the only way. And Pierce is healthy. He walked away from it. Should they cut Nog because he didn't tap, and let MIr break his arm. That would be protecting him, wouldn't it?



Paul Daley only landed one measly punch after the bell against Josh Koscheck because he was caught up in the moment, should he be allowed to stay in the UFC?

It was Nog's stupid choice not to tap, Mir did his job. Had Mir did what he did after Nog tapped, he wouldn't be in the UFC anymore either.


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Post #43   10/11/13 1:07:33AM   

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Palhares is about as bright as a Gibbon.

Post #44   10/11/13 1:09:42AM   

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Posted by bjj1605


Posted by papercut

I think the media is blowing the hold a little out of proportion. He held onto the lock sure but you would think he was cranking it ala babalu/heath. He dropped it quicker than he has previously.



I agree. It was a bit long, but certainly not egregious. Also people, you need to understand the difference between cranking a sub and holding a sub. Palhares HELD for an extra second, but he wasn't torquing it.

On the other hand, hopefully he learned his lesson. I guess it was a repeat offense...

I'm ambivalent actually.



You can clearly see him torque hard after the ref grabs him, maybe you should stop watching the fights on your phone and get in front of a big screen. I thought it was obvious.

Post #45   10/11/13 2:12:18AM   
 
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