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Machida vs Davis - who won?

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Who won?
Machida 42 66%
Davis 10 16%
Don King 12 19%
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GDPofMPG

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Machida won. Easy fight to score. Robbery

Post #16   8/4/13 9:35:41PM   

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I feel like they both lost.

Davis needed this win to be spectacular. He wanted to "beat a top dog" but came out and went for the decision. Not even an exciting decision. Phil underperformed when he should have came out and gone for broke.
Machida should have walked through this dude. Machida could have earned an instant rematch with a decisive victory over Davis. Instead, Machida got out "pointed".

Not a good fight for either.

Post #17   8/5/13 12:21:11AM   

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I scored it 30-27 Machida as well. The only round I thought they might have given Davis was was the 2nd. At first I thought they were just going by take downs but then I looked up the score cards. Two judges gave rounds 1 and 2 to Davis and 3rd to Machida. Then one judge rounds 2 and 3 to Davis. So not sure WTF they were scoring off of.

Score Card

Last edited 8/5/13 12:35AM server time by telnights
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Post #18   8/5/13 12:30:46AM   

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Posted by telnights

I scored it 30-27 Machida as well. The only round I thought they might have given Davis was was the 2nd. At first I thought they were just going by take downs but then I looked up the score cards. Two judges gave rounds 1 and 2 to Davis and 3rd to Machida. Then one judge rounds 2 and 3 to Davis. So not sure WTF they were scoring off of.

Score Card




I agree. Machida 30-27

Post #19   8/5/13 5:06:48PM   

Webbie

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Posted by telnights

I scored it 30-27 Machida as well. The only round I thought they might have given Davis was was the 2nd. At first I thought they were just going by take downs but then I looked up the score cards. Two judges gave rounds 1 and 2 to Davis and 3rd to Machida. Then one judge rounds 2 and 3 to Davis. So not sure WTF they were scoring off of.

Score Card



Wait, wait...

One of the judges scored round three for Phil Davis?

That's fucking unbelievable, and I refer to my previous comment in this thread:


Posted by Webbie

The third round isn't even worth discussing. Machida dominated from start to finish. Davis didn't get a single takedown, and Machida absolutely picked him apart. If anytone scored this round in Davis' favor they should be shot in the face.



This type of stuff bothers me so much because it really fucks the sport up. They're playing with people's lives when they fuck decisions up this badly. It's just pathetic.

Last edited 8/6/13 2:08PM server time by Webbie
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Post #20   8/6/13 2:07:59PM   

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Posted by telnights

I scored it 30-27 Machida as well. The only round I thought they might have given Davis was was the 2nd. At first I thought they were just going by take downs but then I looked up the score cards. Two judges gave rounds 1 and 2 to Davis and 3rd to Machida. Then one judge rounds 2 and 3 to Davis. So not sure WTF they were scoring off of.

Score Card



Wow.

I think when Machida fights the judges just flip a coin at the end of the round because they have no idea how to score technical striking like that.

Round 1: Machida picks Davis apart for 4:15, lands a big flurry. Davis takes him down with less than a minute to go but does nothing.
Round 2: Machida continues to pick Davis apart. Lands at least two really hard straight punches (on left, one right.) Davis takes him down with 15 seconds left and does nothing.
Round 3: Machida picks up the pace, again picking Davis apart but with higher volume. Davis fails on several takedowns and actually gets momentarily reversed on one.

The only round I GUESS I could see Davis getting would be round 1 because he spent 45 seconds on top. Even there though I don't think that negates what Machida did.

Post #21   8/7/13 12:29:51PM   

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Y know what I thought of the decision:

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Post #22   8/8/13 1:48:58PM   

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I think the decision was poor, but I blame the rules as well as the judges. I don't want to beat a dead horse, but MMA "unified rules" need some improvements so scoring make more sense.


Lately, I've been thinking that even positions like back mount and mount should not be highly valued unless something is being done from those positions. Similarly with takedowns; a takedown should carry little weight with the judges because (except in rare cases) it isn't really any more or less offensive than standing up from the ground (which we know doesn't currently seem to carry as much weight as scoring a takedown).

I guess I'm ultimately asking if advancing position is really valuable on its own?
I know it has the intrinsic value of creating more openings for strikes and subs, but if an advantageous position is not taken advantage of then what is it worth?

Davis scored some takedowns, but Machida stopped many more than Davis scored. Does not Machida's stopping the takedown count as maintaining his advantageous position since he was CLEARLY out-striking Davis?

As a final note, I do think Machida's style is clearly not to the judges' liking. I can see how it could be considered to lack offensive pressure and control, and imo the unified rules are stacked against him-- though, in theory, he could change his style a bit to account for this.

Post #23   8/8/13 2:00:37PM   

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Posted by State_Champ

I think the decision was poor, but I blame the rules as well as the judges. I don't want to beat a dead horse, but MMA "unified rules" need some improvements so scoring make more sense.


Lately, I've been thinking that even positions like back mount and mount should not be highly valued unless something is being done from those positions. Similarly with takedowns; a takedown should carry little weight with the judges because (except in rare cases) it isn't really any more or less offensive than standing up from the ground (which we know doesn't currently seem to carry as much weight as scoring a takedown).

I guess I'm ultimately asking if advancing position is really valuable on its own?
I know it has the intrinsic value of creating more openings for strikes and subs, but if an advantageous position is not taken advantage of then what is it worth?

Davis scored some takedowns, but Machida stopped many more than Davis scored. Does not Machida's stopping the takedown count as maintaining his advantageous position since he was CLEARLY out-striking Davis?

As a final note, I do think Machida's style is clearly not to the judges' liking. I can see how it could be considered to lack offensive pressure and control, and imo the unified rules are stacked against him-- though, in theory, he could change his style a bit to account for this.



The position advancement is a display of effective grappling. Aggression is the ability to not only come forward but land legal strikes. The defense of take down thing blows my mind. I think if a guy goes for a take down and his opponent is good enough to not allow it, that is points scored via defense, which many people don't realize is true because it is an actual judging criteria (Rule 14.c and Rule 14.i). In regards to takes down, twice Davis was got the better in the grappling exchange to secure a take down, 6 times Machida was better and dictated the fight would be where he wanted it, on the feet. The two minutes on the ground were won by Davis while the standup fight was Machida's, easily in my opinion. Davis went for many take downs as a result of that. His 2 Minutes on the ground was not better then Machida's 11 or so on the feet. The other time in between, where Davis was attempting effective grappling via take downs, was heavily in Machida's favor, 8 to 2.

Last edited 8/8/13 2:29PM server time by GDPofMPG
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Post #24   8/8/13 2:28:11PM   

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Posted by GDPofMPG


Posted by State_Champ

I think the decision was poor, but I blame the rules as well as the judges. I don't want to beat a dead horse, but MMA "unified rules" need some improvements so scoring make more sense.


Lately, I've been thinking that even positions like back mount and mount should not be highly valued unless something is being done from those positions. Similarly with takedowns; a takedown should carry little weight with the judges because (except in rare cases) it isn't really any more or less offensive than standing up from the ground (which we know doesn't currently seem to carry as much weight as scoring a takedown).

I guess I'm ultimately asking if advancing position is really valuable on its own?
I know it has the intrinsic value of creating more openings for strikes and subs, but if an advantageous position is not taken advantage of then what is it worth?

Davis scored some takedowns, but Machida stopped many more than Davis scored. Does not Machida's stopping the takedown count as maintaining his advantageous position since he was CLEARLY out-striking Davis?

As a final note, I do think Machida's style is clearly not to the judges' liking. I can see how it could be considered to lack offensive pressure and control, and imo the unified rules are stacked against him-- though, in theory, he could change his style a bit to account for this.



The position advancement is a display of effective grappling. Aggression is the ability to not only come forward but land legal strikes. The defense of take down thing blows my mind. I think if a guy goes for a take down and his opponent is good enough to not allow it, that is points scored via defense, which many people don't realize is true because it is an actual judging criteria (Rule 14.c and Rule 14.i). In regards to takes down, twice Davis was got the better in the grappling exchange to secure a take down, 6 times Machida was better and dictated the fight would be where he wanted it, on the feet. The two minutes on the ground were won by Davis while the standup fight was Machida's, easily in my opinion. Davis went for many take downs as a result of that. His 2 Minutes on the ground was not better then Machida's 11 or so on the feet. The other time in between, where Davis was attempting effective grappling via take downs, was heavily in Machida's favor, 8 to 2.



Thank you so much for the response. I'd prop ya if I could

So you're saying that even by (your interpretation of) the current rules, Machida should have won?
So this was a case of the judges failing to use their guiding scoring criteria properly?

Last edited 8/8/13 2:55PM server time by State_Champ
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Post #25   8/8/13 2:53:29PM   

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Posted by State_Champ


Posted by GDPofMPG


Posted by State_Champ

I think the decision was poor, but I blame the rules as well as the judges. I don't want to beat a dead horse, but MMA "unified rules" need some improvements so scoring make more sense.


Lately, I've been thinking that even positions like back mount and mount should not be highly valued unless something is being done from those positions. Similarly with takedowns; a takedown should carry little weight with the judges because (except in rare cases) it isn't really any more or less offensive than standing up from the ground (which we know doesn't currently seem to carry as much weight as scoring a takedown).

I guess I'm ultimately asking if advancing position is really valuable on its own?
I know it has the intrinsic value of creating more openings for strikes and subs, but if an advantageous position is not taken advantage of then what is it worth?

Davis scored some takedowns, but Machida stopped many more than Davis scored. Does not Machida's stopping the takedown count as maintaining his advantageous position since he was CLEARLY out-striking Davis?

As a final note, I do think Machida's style is clearly not to the judges' liking. I can see how it could be considered to lack offensive pressure and control, and imo the unified rules are stacked against him-- though, in theory, he could change his style a bit to account for this.



The position advancement is a display of effective grappling. Aggression is the ability to not only come forward but land legal strikes. The defense of take down thing blows my mind. I think if a guy goes for a take down and his opponent is good enough to not allow it, that is points scored via defense, which many people don't realize is true because it is an actual judging criteria (Rule 14.c and Rule 14.i). In regards to takes down, twice Davis was got the better in the grappling exchange to secure a take down, 6 times Machida was better and dictated the fight would be where he wanted it, on the feet. The two minutes on the ground were won by Davis while the standup fight was Machida's, easily in my opinion. Davis went for many take downs as a result of that. His 2 Minutes on the ground was not better then Machida's 11 or so on the feet. The other time in between, where Davis was attempting effective grappling via take downs, was heavily in Machida's favor, 8 to 2.



Thank you so much for the response. I'd prop ya if I could

So you're saying that even by (your interpretation of) the current rules, Machida should have won?
So this was a case of the judges failing to use their guiding scoring criteria properly?



Yep, very poor judging. Hard to argue how Davis won that via the criteria judges are supposed to base their scores on or by just simply watching the fight imo.

Post #26   8/8/13 5:16:44PM   

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The judges failed. Period.

I don't understand why the UFC or the athletic commissions can't do something about the judge that scored that third round for Davis, though. The third round was very clearly all Machida, so someone should just go talk to that judge and ask him what he was doing when he was supposed to be watching and judging the third round of the fight, because he obviously wasn't watching what was happening in the octagon.

Get that bum out of the judging seat and put someone there whose at least willing to watch the fight.

Post #27   8/8/13 5:19:43PM   

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Posted by Webbie

That's my opinion, but what do I know? I've only been watching MMA for about 8 years now.


Cecil Peoples has you beat

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Post #28   8/8/13 11:52:29PM   

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Posted by State_Champ

I think the decision was poor, but I blame the rules as well as the judges. I don't want to beat a dead horse, but MMA "unified rules" need some improvements so scoring make more sense.



the rules are fine (aside a couple tweaks), the judges are the real problem. They don't know the rules or how to properly interpret them to score a fight.

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Post #29   8/8/13 11:57:00PM   
 
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