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Brutal, fatal cleaver assault in London called a terrorist attack

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They first hit the man, thought to be a British soldier, with a car in broad daylight. Then the two attackers hacked him to death and dumped his body in the middle of a southeastern London road.
As the victim -- dressed in what appeared to be a T-shirt for Help for Heroes, a charity that helps military veterans -- lay prone, one of the two attackers found a camera.
"We swear by almighty Allah we will never stop fighting you until you leave us alone," said a meat-cleaver-wielding man with bloody hands, speaking in what seems to be a London accent.

"The only reasons we killed this man ... is because Muslims are dying daily," he added, in video aired by CNN affiliate ITN. "This British soldier is an eye for an eye, a tooth for tooth."

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Last edited 5/22/13 9:38PM server time by FastKnockout
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Post #1   5/22/13 9:36:23PM   

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dude was hacked up!

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Post #2   5/22/13 9:38:28PM   

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Was anyone else wondering where the police were initially?

Post #3   5/22/13 9:57:22PM   

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Posted by jay98107

Was anyone else wondering where the police were initially?




They came a while later and shot them

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Post #4   5/22/13 10:09:47PM   

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Posted by jay98107

Was anyone else wondering where the police were initially?



*This is not a political statement*

As a potential responding officer. I can say without question that the immediate response of a legally armed (though I don't believe there is such a thing in the UK) nearby citizen would have been a much faster response than that of the police.

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Post #5   5/23/13 6:41:10AM   

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Posted by bojangalz


Posted by jay98107

Was anyone else wondering where the police were initially?



*This is not a political statement*

As a potential responding officer. I can say without question that the immediate response of a legally armed (though I don't believe there is such a thing in the UK) nearby citizen would have been a much faster response than that of the police.

) pretty much. sums up my argument against bullshit ass gun control laws

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Post #6   5/23/13 6:52:01AM   

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Posted by bojangalz


Posted by jay98107

Was anyone else wondering where the police were initially?



*This is not a political statement*

As a potential responding officer. I can say without question that the immediate response of a legally armed (though I don't believe there is such a thing in the UK) nearby citizen would have been a much faster response than that of the police.



The response time of the armed police was 20 minutes from call to appearance. Police could have shown up initially but sending the local police officer was not the right decision. Any armed response time over 25 minutes would be investigated by Complaints commissions as the Armed police's response time is supposed to be on average 16 minutes. The incident took place at 2:20pm so traffic can not be blamed on the extra moments on response time.

Whilst it might be true that a citizen might have been faster, only 1 man was killed by the offenders, and they posed no further threat to bystanders other than that of the weapons making people feel harassed, alarmed or distressed. Both suspects are in custody, bringing the offenders to custody is always rule number 1 in the UK - Only in severe circumstances do we ever shoot to kill and a "legally armed citizen" might have shot to kill.

And a Legally armed Citizen does not really exist in the UK.

Last edited 5/23/13 7:09AM server time by jjeans
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Post #7   5/23/13 7:02:34AM   

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Posted by george112

pretty much. sums up my argument against bullshit ass gun control laws



Wow...

Comparing Statistics directly between US and the UK. The US has on average, 4.7 murders per 100,000 people, the UK has 1.3 per 100,000.

Here's something your theorists will love as well.

The FBI and the UK's Home Office produces the statistics and for every 100,000 people the US has 466 "Violent Crimes" the UK has 2034. Wow so the UK is far more violent? No.

The Home Office defines violent crime as robbery, sexual offences, and a group of Violence Against the Person offences ranging from assault without injury, through wounding, to homicide.

According to the FBI: violent crime is composed of four offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault..

So what your really comparing is a selective list of violent crimes vs an open list of ranging crimes. And these are of course just the reported crimes, not the dark figure of crime.

There is no right or wrong answer and I am not arguing for one or another, just because someone wins a war does not mean they are right but you can't say something is "Bullshit ass" when murder rates are higher currently higher where gun control laws are more flexible

Last edited 5/23/13 7:32AM server time by jjeans
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Post #8   5/23/13 7:10:14AM   

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Posted by jjeans


Posted by george112


Posted by bojangalz


Posted by jay98107

Was anyone else wondering where the police were initially?



*This is not a political statement*

As a potential responding officer. I can say without question that the immediate response of a legally armed (though I don't believe there is such a thing in the UK) nearby citizen would have been a much faster response than that of the police.

) pretty much. sums up my argument against bullshit ass gun control laws



Wow...



not sure if this is positive or negative


but to iterate my point an armed citizen would have for surely deterred the shooter at aurora and newtown.


me in particular if i was there. yeah you could use the whole piers morgan view and say the old wild west would have broke out but i think the potential of taking out the guy with one shot overrules that. just my opinion

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Post #9   5/23/13 7:29:57AM   

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Posted by jjeans


Posted by george112

pretty much. sums up my argument against bullshit ass gun control laws



Wow...

Comparing Statistics directly between US and the UK. The US has on average, 4.7 murders per 100,000 people, the UK has 1.3 per 100,000.

Here's something your theorists will love as well.

The FBI and the UK's Home Office produces the statistics and for every 100,000 people the US has 466 "Violent Crimes" the UK has 2034. Wow so the UK is far more violent? No.

The Home Office defines violent crime as robbery, sexual offences, and a group of Violence Against the Person offences ranging from assault without injury, through wounding, to homicide.

According to the FBI: violent crime is composed of four offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault..

So what your really comparing is a selective list of violent crimes vs an open list of ranging crimes. And these are of course just the reported crimes, not the dark figure of crime.

There is no right or wrong answer and I am not arguing for one or another, just because someone wins a war does not mean they are right but you can't say something is "Bullshit ass" when murder rates are higher.

my bad dude. im 100% positive you misinterpreted my post. i wasnt trying to compare. just saying the gun control they are trying to pass in the US is illogical

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Post #10   5/23/13 7:33:35AM   

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Posted by george112

my bad dude. im 100% positive you misinterpreted my post. i wasnt trying to compare. just saying the gun control they are trying to pass in the US is illogical



My bad man, I get a bit touchy when people try to tell other countries what's right and wrong which is why I am quite fascinated with the article itself, some extremist comes to the country to tell us we're wrong... and we give him that freedom to do so but then he steps it up and kills someone to make a point, if we just tried to go to his country and tell them they're wrong bad shit would happen.

I don't know enough on the gun control stuff that's going on in America really all I know is Piers Morgan's leading it and he wasn't liked in our country so why the hell he's trying to promote gun control over there is beyond me. Unless your born in the country, keep your nose out of other countries politics, unless they're fucking crazy like communism etc, gun control has it's faults but it has pro's too, it is a very justifiable thing for a citizen to possess. I was born in a society where guns weren't needed so I support the governments choice in that. If I was born in America I would have supported my governments decision to allow me to posses a weapon.

But people like Piers should keep is fucking mouth shut, he doesn't seem happy anywhere. If he doesn't like America, leave. But the British don't like him either.

Last edited 5/23/13 7:47AM server time by jjeans
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Post #11   5/23/13 7:41:13AM   

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Posted by jjeans


Posted by george112

my bad dude. im 100% positive you misinterpreted my post. i wasnt trying to compare. just saying the gun control they are trying to pass in the US is illogical



My bad man, I get a bit touchy when people try to tell other countries what's right and wrong which is why I am quite fascinated with the article itself, some extremist comes to the country to tell us we're wrong... and we give him that freedom to do so but then he steps it up and kills someone to make a point, if we just tried to go to his country and tell them they're wrong bad shit would happen.

I don't know enough on the gun control stuff that's going on in America really all I know is Piers Morgan's leading it and he wasn't liked in our country so why the hell he's trying to promote gun control over there is beyond me.

totally fine man. i like you have no idea about the UK situation. nor do i think i could put up a debate about it.

no harm done on either side. still love you

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Post #12   5/23/13 7:46:59AM   

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Posted by george112


Posted by jjeans


Posted by george112

my bad dude. im 100% positive you misinterpreted my post. i wasnt trying to compare. just saying the gun control they are trying to pass in the US is illogical



My bad man, I get a bit touchy when people try to tell other countries what's right and wrong which is why I am quite fascinated with the article itself, some extremist comes to the country to tell us we're wrong... and we give him that freedom to do so but then he steps it up and kills someone to make a point, if we just tried to go to his country and tell them they're wrong bad shit would happen.

I don't know enough on the gun control stuff that's going on in America really all I know is Piers Morgan's leading it and he wasn't liked in our country so why the hell he's trying to promote gun control over there is beyond me.

totally fine man. i like you have no idea about the UK situation. nor do i think i could put up a debate about it.

no harm done on either side. still love you



Love you too buddy

When Pier's decides to come home can you make sure he's in a body bag?

I'll fully support the use of guns

Last edited 5/23/13 7:50AM server time by jjeans
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Post #13   5/23/13 7:49:08AM   

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Posted by george112


Posted by jjeans


Posted by george112

pretty much. sums up my argument against bullshit ass gun control laws



Wow...

Comparing Statistics directly between US and the UK. The US has on average, 4.7 murders per 100,000 people, the UK has 1.3 per 100,000.

Here's something your theorists will love as well.

The FBI and the UK's Home Office produces the statistics and for every 100,000 people the US has 466 "Violent Crimes" the UK has 2034. Wow so the UK is far more violent? No.

The Home Office defines violent crime as robbery, sexual offences, and a group of Violence Against the Person offences ranging from assault without injury, through wounding, to homicide.

According to the FBI: violent crime is composed of four offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault..

So what your really comparing is a selective list of violent crimes vs an open list of ranging crimes. And these are of course just the reported crimes, not the dark figure of crime.

There is no right or wrong answer and I am not arguing for one or another, just because someone wins a war does not mean they are right but you can't say something is "Bullshit ass" when murder rates are higher.

my bad dude. im 100% positive you misinterpreted my post. i wasnt trying to compare. just saying the gun control they are trying to pass in the US is illogical







ya god damn background checks such an inconvenience...got to break a few eggs to make an omelet and if a few mentally unstable people get to go on rampages so I can avoid a background check so be it


im not gonna respond to this any further as its gotten political fast and I like everyone to much to go insane

Post #14   5/23/13 7:49:17AM   

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Posted by the-king


Posted by george112


Posted by jjeans


Posted by george112

pretty much. sums up my argument against bullshit ass gun control laws



Wow...

Comparing Statistics directly between US and the UK. The US has on average, 4.7 murders per 100,000 people, the UK has 1.3 per 100,000.

Here's something your theorists will love as well.

The FBI and the UK's Home Office produces the statistics and for every 100,000 people the US has 466 "Violent Crimes" the UK has 2034. Wow so the UK is far more violent? No.

The Home Office defines violent crime as robbery, sexual offences, and a group of Violence Against the Person offences ranging from assault without injury, through wounding, to homicide.

According to the FBI: violent crime is composed of four offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault..

So what your really comparing is a selective list of violent crimes vs an open list of ranging crimes. And these are of course just the reported crimes, not the dark figure of crime.

There is no right or wrong answer and I am not arguing for one or another, just because someone wins a war does not mean they are right but you can't say something is "Bullshit ass" when murder rates are higher.

my bad dude. im 100% positive you misinterpreted my post. i wasnt trying to compare. just saying the gun control they are trying to pass in the US is illogical







ya god damn background checks such an inconvenience...got to break a few eggs to make an omelet and if a few mentally unstable people get to go on rampages so I can avoid a background check so be it


im not gonna respond to this any further as its gotten political fast and I like everyone to much to go insane

lol i agree with you. although i think the background checks are flawed. but im all for keeping guns out of mentally unstable people. but to try and outlaw semi auto rifles is outrageous and so is outlawing large magazines

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Post #15   5/23/13 7:57:24AM   
 
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