Rampage Thinks Spinning Elbows And Oblique Kicks Should Be Made Illegal |
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Slight Reach Advantage
Career record: 428-228
Season: 19-5 (#282)
Location: Ronda Rousey's Guard
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i hate seeing them, but dont think they should ban them
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Post #16 1/23/13 7:18:16PM
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Bubbles > jakewalters
Career record: 578-349
Season: 21-3 (#55)
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
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Ban the knee kicks, spinning kicks are fine
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Post #17 1/23/13 7:36:25PM
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State_Champ
MMA Sensei
Career record: 930-568
Season: 19-5 (#268)
Location: The Blue Sphere near the Red Sphere
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People hating on the knee kicks? I didn't expect that.
My thinking may be flawed here, but if a fighter can kick his or her opponent in the head then I think kicking him or her in the knee ought to be allowed.
Neither am I convinced that an oblique kick is designed to destroy the knee. My understanding is that it works best to simply mess with an opponent's footwork, not break his knee joint.
Spinning elbows ought to be illegal if they land on the back of the head.
And I think, in general, refs need to be much less lenient on allowing strikes to the back of the head so long as they're illegal.
Last edited 1/23/13 8:10PM by State_Champ
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #18 1/23/13 8:09:46PM
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frizzzlecake
MMA Sensei
Career record: 197-125
Season: 17-6 (#753)
Location: your f***ing nightmare
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I never liked those kicks and think they should be banned. ACL/Knee injuries can destroy a fighter's career and like we protect fighter's from back of the head strikes, we should protect their knees from being blown out.
I honestly think it's going to take a terrible knee injury for the rule to change.
Spinning Elbows should stay though, Rampage just mad his T-Rex Arms can't throw em.
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Post #19 1/23/13 11:36:49PM
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State_Champ
MMA Sensei
Career record: 930-568
Season: 19-5 (#268)
Location: The Blue Sphere near the Red Sphere
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Posted by frizzzlecake
I never liked those kicks and think they should be banned. ACL/Knee injuries can destroy a fighter's career and like we protect fighter's from back of the head strikes, we should protect their knees from being blown out.
I honestly think it's going to take a terrible knee injury for the rule to change.
Have there been any terrible knee injuries from oblique kicks in MMA?
Sure there could be eventually, but have there been? That would provide some evidence against my position that they ought to be legal.
However, even if there were an injury from the oblique kick, MMA still allows knee bars, and heel hooks despite injuries.
Furthermore, During the first round of Jones vs Vera, Jones threw an elbow that fractured Vera's face in three places. It also severed a nerve and lodged a chip of bone behind his right eyeball, but people don't seem to be calling for grounded elbows to be banned.
I think y'all have an irrational fear of knees being kicked at.
That is, irrational in relation to your seeming indifference to a number of other dangerous martial arts maneuvers.
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Post #20 1/24/13 9:51:35AM
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KE Released in MAtter
Career record: 607-362
Season: 20-4 (#268)
Location:
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You make good points about the hellbows, SC, but knee bar and heel hooks don't hold the same weight, despite being the same location as oblique kicks. Unless there is a rabid gorilla attached to your leg (this has happened in the UFC) you always have the chance to tap, preventing the damage. You can absolutely jack someone's arm up with an over extended kimura, Big Nog may have been lucky with the arm snap, instead of ripping everything in his shoulder. This doesn't change the fact that you can tap if it's getting ugly, whereas with the kicks you don;t have that option.
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Post #21 1/24/13 10:04:30AM
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jaguar_paw
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 796-616
Season: 16-8 (#1131)
Location: Austin, TX
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The problem is that front kicks are a key part of MMA. They are good at keeping the distance, and they can mess up the footwork when fighting a guy taking a traditional boxing stance.... front leg way out in front.
The more and more strikes you take away from a fight, the less it becomes a fight and the more tools you take away from a guy to finish a fight.
However, I guess if you don't really like watching a "fight" and you want to watch more and more fights go to boring decisions of either LnP or pitter patter boxing matches.... then sure, ban them all.
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Post #22 1/24/13 11:23:31AM
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Boo_Radley21
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 573-405
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Ontario
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I agree they should be banned. It's dangerous and I have always hated seeing them. Sooner or later someones leg is breaking
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Post #23 1/24/13 11:43:01AM
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Slight Reach Advantage
Career record: 428-228
Season: 19-5 (#282)
Location: Ronda Rousey's Guard
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Posted by Boo_Radley21
I agree they should be banned. It's dangerous and I have always hated seeing them. Sooner or later someones leg is breaking
if a middle tier fighter has their leg broken, they'll say he needs to learn to defend it properly, but if someone broke Jon Jones or Cain Velasquez's leg, they'd change that rule in a heartbeat.
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MMA Events Attended:
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Post #24 1/24/13 1:35:27PM
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TheShaman
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 74-56
Season: 13-11 (#1223)
Location:
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I wondered for years why nobody used them (the kicks). I wondered how professional fighters didn't know about them, since I discovered them on my own in high school without any training. I would tell my friends how effective it was, they would never believe me, so they always ended up on the ground holding their knee saying "you broke my knee", but they were fine a few minutes later 
Now that I see them in action on a professional level, I do wonder how they are legal. It also shows how tough the fighters are, since that kick from an untrained person immobilizes an average person for up to five minutes.
I wonder if perception of the kick would change if they called it a "knee stomp". Has anyone tried using it in the clinch? It seems like that would be the perfect time to use it. I can only remember seeing it used at a distance.
Last edited 1/24/13 3:36PM by TheShaman
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #25 1/24/13 2:52:18PM
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State_Champ
MMA Sensei
Career record: 930-568
Season: 19-5 (#268)
Location: The Blue Sphere near the Red Sphere
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Posted by TheShaman
I wondered for years why nobody used them (the kicks). I wondered how professional fighters didn't know about them, since I discovered them on my own in high school without any training. I would tell my friends how effective it was, they would never believe me, so they always ended up on the ground holding their knee saying "you broke my knee", but they were fine a few minutes later
Now that I see them in action on a professional level, I do wonder how they are legal. It also shows how tough the fighters are, since that kick from an untrained person immobilizes an average person for up to five minutes.
I wonder if perception of the kick would change if they called it a "knee stomp". Has anyone tried using it in the clinch? It seems like that would be the perfect time to use it. I can only remember seeing it used at a distance.
I think you'd likely get taken down if you tried that "knee stomp" from the clinch in the UFC.
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Post #26 1/24/13 4:04:04PM
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TheShaman
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 74-56
Season: 13-11 (#1223)
Location:
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Posted by State_Champ
I think you'd likely get taken down if you tried that "knee stomp" from the clinch in the UFC.
People knee and foot stomp without getting taken down. I guess it depends on the fighter and the situation, and their abilities.
That kick is essentially an angled stomp, so if you can lift your leg up to knee, you can bring it down to "stomp" at an angle, or so it seems to me. I would think that would be even more devastating because of the more optimal angle to the knee.
Would I be taken down... I would have a lot more than that done to me because I haven't trained to fight for my entire life like most professional fighters. We are talking about actual fighters though, so we can only speculate until it happens.
I think it's telling that Jones used it a number of times (though not in the clinch), since he is known to try new things and improvise in the cage. I think he realized how effective it was in training, and that there was no rule against it, so he used it when most other fighters stick to what they know and don't necessarily try new things.
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Post #27 1/24/13 4:40:34PM
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REBEL WITH A CAUSE
Career record: 820-501
Season: 20-4 (#127)
Location: Milwaukie, Oregon
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Posted by Lungsofsteel
Posted by tcunningham
i say ban the the kicks to the knee. what other reason is there for throwing that kick other than to injure the knee joint. we dont need any more torn ACL's in the ufc. as for the spinning elbows, let them stay. they cant be any more dangerous than a regular elbow or standing knees to the head from the plum.
I agree with you 100%. Ban those kicks. The spinning elbows are fine. 
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Post #28 1/24/13 4:57:50PM
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State_Champ
MMA Sensei
Career record: 930-568
Season: 19-5 (#268)
Location: The Blue Sphere near the Red Sphere
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Posted by TheShaman
Posted by State_Champ
I think you'd likely get taken down if you tried that "knee stomp" from the clinch in the UFC.
People knee and foot stomp without getting taken down. I guess it depends on the fighter and the situation, and their abilities.
That kick is essentially an angled stomp, so if you can lift your leg up to knee, you can bring it down to "stomp" at an angle, or so it seems to me. I would think that would be even more devastating because of the more optimal angle to the knee.
Would I be taken down... I would have a lot more than that done to me because I haven't trained to fight for my entire life like most professional fighters. We are talking about actual fighters though, so we can only speculate until it happens.
I think it's telling that Jones used it a number of times (though not in the clinch), since he is known to try new things and improvise in the cage. I think he realized how effective it was in training, and that there was no rule against it, so he used it when most other fighters stick to what they know and don't necessarily try new things.
Could be you're right. I don't reckon I know for sure.
It seemed to me like lifting a leg up and putting the foot on an opponent's knee would lead to a very compromising position. However, you bring up a good point about the effectiveness of knees in the clinch.
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Post #29 1/24/13 6:15:23PM
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MMA Sensei
Career record: 618-377
Season: 8-3 (#1719)
Location: Ontario, WHAT!
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Posted by airkerma
You make good points about the hellbows, SC, but knee bar and heel hooks don't hold the same weight, despite being the same location as oblique kicks. Unless there is a rabid gorilla attached to your leg (this has happened in the UFC) you always have the chance to tap, preventing the damage. You can absolutely jack someone's arm up with an over extended kimura, Big Nog may have been lucky with the arm snap, instead of ripping everything in his shoulder. This doesn't change the fact that you can tap if it's getting ugly, whereas with the kicks you don;t have that option.
and how many fighters have tapped and still had their arm broken, knee torn, shoulder jacked? many.
the intent of a submission is to break or tear whatever you are holding, NOT to make a guy tap, if you're pussy footing a submission hold, you're doing it wrong.
If you lock on an arm bar ,you're breaking it or the ref is stopping you, you're not trying to apply juuuuuuust enough pressure to just make the guy tap out, if you are, you were taught wrong
Take it home, or dont grab it. 
Last edited 1/24/13 6:16PM by beer
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #30 1/24/13 6:15:53PM
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