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2012-13 NBA Season Thread

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Shawn91111

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Posted by jay98107


Posted by Shawn91111


Posted by Bubbles

I'm clearly not old enough to have watched most of them and I am a bit biased as Kidd is my favourite player, but he has to be considered top 5 at the very least. Sure he didn't score 20 ppg, but he was one of the best all around players in the game. He routinely led his team in rebounding and had better rpg than most PFs in the league. He's a phenomenal passer, great leader and has a very high basketball IQ...add in his stellar defensive play and clutch 3 point shooting and you have one of the best 5-tool players in NBA history. His 107 career triple doubles, 9 defensive team selections, 2nd all time in total assists and steals, 3rd all time in total 3pt made

He may not have all the individual awards and only 1 NBA title but he took a very young Nets team to back-to-back Championships (losing to the Lakers and Spurs...two of the best dynasties in the last 20 years) after the team was a cellar dweller. He also got screwed out of the MVP in 01/02

That's my rant on Jason Kidd, hope it changed your mind






Kidd is not a top 5 pg all time. Top 10 ok but top 5 is tough to crack and no way



I disagree, but only because I think he's exactly #5. 3rd all-time in three pointers made. 2nd all-time in assists. 2nd-all time in steals. 10-time all-star. Magic, Oscar, Stockton, Isaiah are all clearly ahead of him, but after that it's hard to pick someone over Kidd. Depending on your love of Steve Nash, Bob Cousy, Gary Payton etc.




I have Payton and Cousy above Kidd. I have Kidd around 7,8

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Post #196   12/17/12 10:40:43PM   

UndrCovrBrah

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New to the forum, was tight seeing an NBA thread.

L.A. fan.

Clippers rolling right now. Pulling for an all L.A. WCF this season as i didn't get my wish last year.

Lakers look like they'll be on a 3 game winning streak barring a bad loss to Charlotte but man, are those games against GS and NY going to be tough.

Also, to the topic above me ^ Kidd for me is probably my favorite PG of this era.

I definitely have him in my top 5 PG's of all time

1. Magic

2. Stockton

3. Kidd

4. Isiah

5. Nash

That's my personal list, obviously there is room for argument.

Post #197   12/18/12 9:15:57AM   

Bubbles

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welcome to the PG man. Make a post in the intro forum too

Thanks for the Kidd support but I cannot agree with Nash anywhere near the top 5. #9 or #10 sure, but thats about it. He can only play in one type of system because he is one of the worst defensive players of our generation and has yet to play a game in the championship series. MVPs mean nothing if you can't carry your team to the promise land

Last edited 12/18/12 12:10PM server time by bubbles
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Post #198   12/18/12 12:09:04PM   

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I've seen the best PG ever argument on here, and I'm shocked no one mentioned The Big O. Until MJ came along, he was hands down the best player ever that wasn't a big man. For my money he's right there with Magic and Stockton. After that it gets a little tougher, but I think Kidd, Nash, and Cousy are the next 3, with Frazier, Payton, and Isaiah following that group in no particular order.

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Post #199   12/18/12 12:12:08PM   

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Posted by Bubbles

Thanks for the Kidd support but I cannot agree with Nash anywhere near the top 5. #9 or #10 sure, but thats about it. He can only play in one type of system because he is one of the worst defensive players of our generation and has yet to play a game in the championship series. MVPs mean nothing if you can't carry your team to the promise land



The one thing Nash does/did is make everyone around him better, and that's the mark of a great point guard. His defense has always been horrendous though, it's a pretty big knock when you have great defensive players like Frazier and Payton in the same group, I'll give you that.

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Post #200   12/18/12 12:15:39PM   

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I guess but look at Amare, Marion and Joe Johnson post-Nash, they are still really good players and their production hasn't really declined (outside of Marion whos nearing retirement but still plays very well). Now compare that to Kidd's best teams where Kenyon Martin has fallen off the NBA map and Richard Jefferson went from scoring ~20 ppg down to being the #3 option on the floor to now playing off the bench as an 8th man.

Nash went from being an above average PG in Dallas to the one of the best in Phoenix because he never had to play D. The Suns were one of the worst team in the league the year before Nash came over (but made the playoffs the season before) and Nash helped them towards the top of the conference, but no NBA title games. Kidd took a team that was a bad the previous 3 years and took them to 2 NBA finals.

I've never seen Oscar play but I can see him being in the top 5 discussion. Nash being anywhere near that is an insult to the others.

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Post #201   12/18/12 12:40:16PM   

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If we're talking pure point guards, the Kidd is above Nash hands down, if we're talking about players that played the point and their whole game I think it's close. Nash's defense is as bad as Kidd's shooting. They both have major holes in their games even though they are going to go down as all time greats. I'm not a huge fan of either, and I can't make a good argument for one over the other as I think it's really close. To me they're both in the conversation, and that second group I threw out with both of them in it was in no particular order.

Another guy I forgot is Kevin Johnson. That guy was underrated throughout his career and his numbers stack up pretty well against the other guys mentioned.

Also, as far as Gary Payton goes, I probably have him a little lower than he should be because he was SO terrible in his short time here in Milwaukee. That was an awful trade, and I still can't get why we traded Ray Allen.

Last edited 12/18/12 12:58PM server time by cowcatcher
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Post #202   12/18/12 12:58:05PM   

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Posted by cowcatcher

I've seen the best PG ever argument on here, and I'm shocked no one mentioned The Big O. Until MJ came along, he was hands down the best player ever that wasn't a big man. For my money he's right there with Magic and Stockton. After that it gets a little tougher, but I think Kidd, Nash, and Cousy are the next 3, with Frazier, Payton, and Isaiah following that group in no particular order.



CC I ranked Oscar 2nd all time like three posts ago

Post #203   12/18/12 6:22:19PM   

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Posted by cowcatcher

If we're talking pure point guards, the Kidd is above Nash hands down, if we're talking about players that played the point and their whole game I think it's close. Nash's defense is as bad as Kidd's shooting. They both have major holes in their games even though they are going to go down as all time greats. I'm not a huge fan of either, and I can't make a good argument for one over the other as I think it's really close. To me they're both in the conversation, and that second group I threw out with both of them in it was in no particular order.

Another guy I forgot is Kevin Johnson. That guy was underrated throughout his career and his numbers stack up pretty well against the other guys mentioned.

Also, as far as Gary Payton goes, I probably have him a little lower than he should be because he was SO terrible in his short time here in Milwaukee. That was an awful trade, and I still can't get why we traded Ray Allen.



You also got Desmond Mason out of that trade, who was supposed to be a stronger player than he ended up being. There's no doubt that Payton was better at guarding MJ than anybody.

Post #204   12/18/12 6:23:37PM   

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Posted by jay98107


Posted by cowcatcher

I've seen the best PG ever argument on here, and I'm shocked no one mentioned The Big O. Until MJ came along, he was hands down the best player ever that wasn't a big man. For my money he's right there with Magic and Stockton. After that it gets a little tougher, but I think Kidd, Nash, and Cousy are the next 3, with Frazier, Payton, and Isaiah following that group in no particular order.



CC I ranked Oscar 2nd all time like three posts ago



Sweet senility must be setting in.

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Post #205   12/18/12 7:44:49PM   

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I think Oscar and Cousy deserve their hall of fame and championships plus recognition but i just have trouble seeing them compared to PG's of the NBA where talent was way better than in the 60's and 70's.

My list is personal, i got Nash there because he is one of my top 5 favorite PG's but i also think he can pass by on being included on others' lists based purely off of his skill set offensively.

His vision and passing to go along with his efficiency alone are prob the best right next to Stockton.

When you're emphasizing defense, then i think Nash drops down the list considerably.

Post #206   12/19/12 11:36:49PM   

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RAPTORS WIN!! RAPTORS WIN!! RAPTORS WIN!! RAPTORS WIN!!

4 in a row Playoffs baby

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Post #207   12/20/12 3:54:38PM   

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Posted by Bubbles

RAPTORS WIN!! RAPTORS WIN!! RAPTORS WIN!! RAPTORS WIN!!

4 in a row Playoffs baby



Craziness. I think that proves we need to get Bargnani as far away from this team as possible.

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Post #208   12/20/12 4:21:36PM   

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Posted by Budgellism


Posted by Bubbles

RAPTORS WIN!! RAPTORS WIN!! RAPTORS WIN!! RAPTORS WIN!!

4 in a row Playoffs baby



Craziness. I think that proves we need to get Bargnani as far away from this team as possible.


and Lowry

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Post #209   12/20/12 4:58:22PM   

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Thunder get their winning streak snapped but Clips still riding high. Hope they can get to the big 20 for history sake.

Lakers/Warriors should be good 2morrow, 4 game winning streak here we come.

Will feel good with both L.A. teams playing good and if Nash comes back 2morrow or against NY Christmas day, then i'll be glued to the tv for sure. Pau and Nash should make a difference against NY this second time around.


Also, Lebron is playing unbelievable. Has scored 20 in every game this season so far and he's shooting % wise reminiscent of last season when they won the chip.

Post #210   12/21/12 1:38:19PM   
 
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