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Penn State Sanctions: $60M, Bowl Ban

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BlueSkiesBurn

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Posted by FlashyG

Its pretty crazy that they have the power to strip the team of all wins since 1998.

Do they track down all the players on their championship teams and demand their rings back?



They can ask for stuff back, but they usually don't and they never get it when they do.

Post #16   7/23/12 4:17:36PM   

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Posted by Wallass

Awesome! Too bad scumbag Paterno ain't around to be punished.



He got fired, had his legacy wiped out, statue torn down, and most of his wins vacated and technically he didn't break any laws.

I'd say he was punished sufficiently.

Post #17   7/23/12 4:18:08PM   

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Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

1. They're vacating the wins as if the team was cheating. The players did everything right, why are their accomplishments being taken?



The argument I've heard toward this was that harboring and protecting Sandusky was a competitive advantage due to his expertise in recruiting and pumping out amazing defensive talent. In a way, this did give them a competitive edge during the time they employed and hid his crimes.

Post #18   7/23/12 4:25:28PM   

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Posted by gartface


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

1. They're vacating the wins as if the team was cheating. The players did everything right, why are their accomplishments being taken?



The argument I've heard toward this was that harboring and protecting Sandusky was a competitive advantage due to his expertise in recruiting and pumping out amazing defensive talent. In a way, this did give them a competitive edge during the time they employed and hid his crimes.



And that argument commits the fallacy of the predetermined outcome.

Post #19   7/23/12 4:26:34PM   

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I'm not much for worshipping false idols so I am down w/ this.

This isn't punishment for Sandusky's crimes. This is punishment for Paterno's coverup.

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Post #20   7/23/12 4:47:54PM   

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Posted by FlashyG


Posted by Wallass

Awesome! Too bad scumbag Paterno ain't around to be punished.



He got fired, had his legacy wiped out, statue torn down, and most of his wins vacated and technically he didn't break any laws.

I'd say he was punished sufficiently.



agreed.

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Post #21   7/23/12 4:48:48PM   

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Now if only Jerry S. would get the real death penalty.

I betcha Bill O'Brien wishes he was still in New England.....I will laugh my arse off if he jumps ship and says The hell with this - - I'm outta here!

Last edited 7/23/12 4:53PM server time by chael_sonnen
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Post #22   7/23/12 4:53:00PM   

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I am Penn States Reckoning.


I hope that 60 million goes to the victims families and not NCAA pockets.




On a good note My Badgers get a easy W for the next ten years.

Post #23   7/23/12 5:07:42PM   

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Posted by BlueSkiesBurn


Posted by gartface


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

1. They're vacating the wins as if the team was cheating. The players did everything right, why are their accomplishments being taken?



The argument I've heard toward this was that harboring and protecting Sandusky was a competitive advantage due to his expertise in recruiting and pumping out amazing defensive talent. In a way, this did give them a competitive edge during the time they employed and hid his crimes.



And that argument commits the fallacy of the predetermined outcome.



I don't believe it does, actually. You can claim competitive advantage, which is still arguable, without even discussing results. The same as Steroids are considered a competitive advantage, while nobody is actually able to identify whether usage has resulted in a better performance or not during a sporting competition. Competitive edge doesn't always equal better results...and as long as that claim isn't made, I don't see a problem with that portion of the argument. If someone argued that employing Sandusky made for a better record than there would have been without, then yes, Fallacy on all sides.

Last edited 7/23/12 5:20PM server time by grappler0000
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Post #24   7/23/12 5:18:07PM   

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I'm not a fan of wiping out the school's record, and any subsequent erasing of Bowl wins or w/e. Although the crimes pale in comparison but Mark McGuire's and Pete Rose's numbers still valid and their teams' records havent changed, so I don't see the reasoning why Penn State should have 13 years of wins (but not losses) wiped clean

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Post #25   7/23/12 5:40:07PM   

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Posted by grappler0000


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn


Posted by gartface


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

1. They're vacating the wins as if the team was cheating. The players did everything right, why are their accomplishments being taken?



The argument I've heard toward this was that harboring and protecting Sandusky was a competitive advantage due to his expertise in recruiting and pumping out amazing defensive talent. In a way, this did give them a competitive edge during the time they employed and hid his crimes.



And that argument commits the fallacy of the predetermined outcome.



I don't believe it does, actually. You can claim competitive advantage, which is still arguable, without even discussing results. The same as Steroids are considered a competitive advantage, while nobody is actually able to identify whether an advantage was gained or not during a sporting competition. Competitive edge doesn't always equal better results...and as long as that claim isn't made, I don't see a problem with that portion of the argument. If someone argued that employing Sandusky made for a better record than there would have been without, then yes, Fallacy on all sides.



No, even before then it commits the fallacy. It assumes that PSU wouldn't have gotten that talent without Sandusky. It operates under the assumption that another coach couldn't have developed/recruited that talent.

Penn State is an elite institution, players go there because they have a history of developing talent and they know how to develop talent. Sandusky and Paterno had diminished roles within the actual football aspect of things.

The job of a defensive coordinator IS to recruit well and develop top talent. How is that a competitive advantage? Every coordinator does that.

Post #26   7/23/12 5:41:15PM   

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I figured the NCAA was going to come down hard on Penn State. Sucks for the former and current players, but I'm glad the punishment was harsh. Not sure if I agree taking wins away, but considering it has happened to other schools with scandals, it had to be done.

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Post #27   7/23/12 5:59:11PM   

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Posted by Bubbles

I'm not a fan of wiping out the school's record, and any subsequent erasing of Bowl wins or w/e. Although the crimes pale in comparison but Mark McGuire's and Pete Rose's numbers still valid and their teams' records havent changed, so I don't see the reasoning why Penn State should have 13 years of wins (but not losses) wiped clean

Wins AND losses should have been wiped.....all games played

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Post #28   7/23/12 6:06:46PM   

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Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

No, even before then it commits the fallacy. It assumes that PSU wouldn't have gotten that talent without Sandusky. It operates under the assumption that another coach couldn't have developed/recruited that talent.



The difference being that I'm talking about his talent/acumen/resume...everything that he brought to the table, not the actual results that he produced.



Penn State is an elite institution, players go there because they have a history of developing talent and they know how to develop talent. Sandusky and Paterno had diminished roles within the actual football aspect of things.

The job of a defensive coordinator IS to recruit well and develop top talent. How is that a competitive advantage? Every coordinator does that.



Frankly, I have no idea whether it was actually a competitive advantage or not. I've never watched a College Football game in my life and I know little to nothing about either coach...that's why I left it as "arguable". And in doing so, I was merely stating that it was a logical argument, based on the veracity of that claim.

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Post #29   7/23/12 6:26:37PM   

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Posted by grappler0000


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

No, even before then it commits the fallacy. It assumes that PSU wouldn't have gotten that talent without Sandusky. It operates under the assumption that another coach couldn't have developed/recruited that talent.



The difference being that I'm talking about his talent/acumen/resume...everything that he brought to the table, not the actual results that he produced.



Penn State is an elite institution, players go there because they have a history of developing talent and they know how to develop talent. Sandusky and Paterno had diminished roles within the actual football aspect of things.

The job of a defensive coordinator IS to recruit well and develop top talent. How is that a competitive advantage? Every coordinator does that.



Frankly, I have no idea whether it was actually a competitive advantage or not. I've never watched a College Football game in my life and I know little to nothing about either coach...that's why I left it as "arguable". And in doing so, I was merely stating that it was a logical argument, based on the veracity of that claim.



I get what you're saying, but any argument saying that Sandusky provided a competitive advantage inherently means that he was better than someone else would/could have done his position.

i.e. Without Sandusky, they don't get that talent.

That's the fallacy of the predetermined outcome. Anyone saying that is already arguing that he gets/develops better talent (competitive advantage). It's inherent within the argument.

Last edited 7/23/12 6:35PM server time by BlueSkiesBurn
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Post #30   7/23/12 6:35:02PM   
 
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