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“A Lotta Late!” UFC Pres Dana White Critical of Munoz vs. Weidman’s Late Stoppage

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BlueSkiesBurn

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Posted by ghandikush



no, boxers die every year, 2 mma fighters died last year and the whole sport wasnt under a microscope. Once a sport is accepted it is accepted.

An early stoppage robs a fighter, a late stoppage in an elite leage only means he takes some bruises and maybe a concussion.

Think about it, two fighters died last year in the sanctioned sport, one of which was during a bout after having had a bunch of serious previous concussions unchecked and one after training due to blood clot if I remember correctly.

None due to late stoppage and pride/ asian mma was known for them.

Right?

Late sucks but early is a robbery of career in certain cases.



Two things.

1. A sport currently being accepted does not mean that it will stay accepted. MLB still hasn't recovered from their strike. Boxing has slowly declined due to corruption (among other things, but it illustrates the point fine). The MLB used to be the biggest sport in America, but the NFL took that spot after their strike and they have never let it go. Controversy and problems do discourage viewership.

2. You're committing the either/or fallacy. It's also known as the false dilemma. You're presenting an either/or hypothesis about early/late stoppages. Neither one are good. Neither one help the sport and neither one should happen. Just because Rosenthal stopped it late doesn't mean his only other option was to stop it early. There was a third option available; giving Munoz a little bit of wiggle-room and then calling the fight.

Last edited 7/13/12 5:31AM server time by BlueSkiesBurn
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Post #16   7/13/12 5:29:16AM   

machodog76

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I actually thought it wasn't that bad I only counted about 3-4 punches in less than 2 seconds and Munoz looked to me like he was (all be it pathetically) trying to defend himself. Certainly it was late but far from the worst or latest I've ever seen. I'll have to go back and watch it again though since I seem to be the only guy on Earth who saw it that way.

Post #17   7/13/12 1:32:03PM   

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Im in between on this one

Post #18   7/13/12 2:23:52PM   

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Yeah it was late but people are making it out to be worse then it was. Munoz is a trained pro, a little late GnP ain't gonna kill him. He was up & talking un-phased a minute afterwards.

Post #19   7/13/12 3:40:31PM   

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Posted by shaneTpain

Yeah it was late but people are making it out to be worse then it was. Munoz is a trained pro, a little late GnP ain't gonna kill him. He was up & talking un-phased a minute afterwards.



Liddell, Sean Salmon, & Goulet were trained pros too.

just sayin'

Post #20   7/13/12 3:43:14PM   

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Posted by BlueSkiesBurn


Posted by ghandikush



no, boxers die every year, 2 mma fighters died last year and the whole sport wasnt under a microscope. Once a sport is accepted it is accepted.

An early stoppage robs a fighter, a late stoppage in an elite leage only means he takes some bruises and maybe a concussion.

Think about it, two fighters died last year in the sanctioned sport, one of which was during a bout after having had a bunch of serious previous concussions unchecked and one after training due to blood clot if I remember correctly.

None due to late stoppage and pride/ asian mma was known for them.

Right?

Late sucks but early is a robbery of career in certain cases.



Two things.

1. A sport currently being accepted does not mean that it will stay accepted. MLB still hasn't recovered from their strike. Boxing has slowly declined due to corruption (among other things, but it illustrates the point fine). The MLB used to be the biggest sport in America, but the NFL took that spot after their strike and they have never let it go. Controversy and problems do discourage viewership.

2. You're committing the either/or fallacy. It's also known as the false dilemma. You're presenting an either/or hypothesis about early/late stoppages. Neither one are good. Neither one help the sport and neither one should happen. Just because Rosenthal stopped it late doesn't mean his only other option was to stop it early. There was a third option available; giving Munoz a little bit of wiggle-room and then calling the fight.



#1 is wrong, none of the sports mentioned are anywhere close to becoming illegal, just lose favor.

#2 you can say what should happen and I agree neither early or late are good, but two things are know, early stoppages are a killer in some cases, and late stoppages have never lead to death in sanctioned bouts in the UFC.

I know I cant prove late is the better choice of evils but I can present those^^^

Post #21   7/13/12 4:33:28PM   

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Posted by ghandikush

#1 is wrong, none of the sports mentioned are anywhere close to becoming illegal, just lose favor.

#2 you can say what should happen and I agree neither early or late are good, but two things are know, early stoppages are a killer in some cases, and late stoppages have never lead to death in sanctioned bouts in the UFC.

I know I cant prove late is the better choice of evils but I can present those^^^



1. Nobody said they were going to ban the sport. Accepted and legal are two different things.

2. You're still committing a logical fallacy. You're still saying either/or. One MUST be worse than the other. It's not true. Both can be equally as bad. You said it yourself, you don't have any evidence to support your claim.

Post #22   7/13/12 4:54:27PM   

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Posted by BlueSkiesBurn


Posted by ghandikush

#1 is wrong, none of the sports mentioned are anywhere close to becoming illegal, just lose favor.

#2 you can say what should happen and I agree neither early or late are good, but two things are know, early stoppages are a killer in some cases, and late stoppages have never lead to death in sanctioned bouts in the UFC.

I know I cant prove late is the better choice of evils but I can present those^^^



1. Nobody said they were going to ban the sport. Accepted and legal are two different things.

2. You're still committing a logical fallacy. You're still saying either/or. One MUST be worse than the other. It's not true. Both can be equally as bad. You said it yourself, you don't have any evidence to support your claim.




What are you talking about? There have been a ton of late stoppages in MMA and no deaths in sanctioned matches as a result of the stoppage. At least no deaths except from aggrivated preexisting concussions etc...

This is absolute evidence after 10 years of modern MMA history and tons of late stoppages in Pride/Dream.

What is the lack of evidence?

Post #23   7/13/12 5:31:10PM   

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Posted by ghandikush


What are you talking about? There have been a ton of late stoppages in MMA and no deaths in sanctioned matches as a result of the stoppage. At least no deaths except from aggrivated preexisting concussions etc...

This is absolute evidence after 10 years of modern MMA history and tons of late stoppages in Pride/Dream.

What is the lack of evidence?



You seem to be mistaken as to how this works. You see, you made the claim that early stoppages are worse than late stoppages. Therefore, the burden of proof is on you to support that claim.

You need to be providing evidence that careers have been ruined by early stoppages. That was your claim.

Post #24   7/13/12 5:35:26PM   

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Posted by BlueSkiesBurn


Posted by ghandikush


What are you talking about? There have been a ton of late stoppages in MMA and no deaths in sanctioned matches as a result of the stoppage. At least no deaths except from aggrivated preexisting concussions etc...

This is absolute evidence after 10 years of modern MMA history and tons of late stoppages in Pride/Dream.

What is the lack of evidence?



You seem to be mistaken as to how this works. You see, you made the claim that early stoppages are worse than late stoppages. Therefore, the burden of proof is on you to support that claim.

You need to be providing evidence that careers have been ruined by early stoppages. That was your claim.



Are you serious, I can laugh at this. When you get an early stoppage Big Nog loses both to Tim Sylvia and Heath Herring, there are no semantics to overwrite how fucked up that is.

You seem to be mistaken as to how watching and remembering MMA works when a bunch of important fights would have gone the other way from a knockdown.

Post #25   7/13/12 7:50:00PM   

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Posted by ghandikush

Are you serious, I can laugh at this. When you get an early stoppage Big Nog loses both to Tim Sylvia and Heath Herring, there are no semantics to overwrite how fucked up that is.

You seem to be mistaken as to how watching and remembering MMA works when a bunch of important fights would have gone the other way from a knockdown.



You can laugh at it, but you'll need to realize that you'll be the only one laughing at IT while everyone else is laughing at YOU for failing to come to terms with logical reasoning.

You're making a much of bogus claims that, by your own self-admission, you can't back up.


Posted by ghandikush I know I cant prove late is the better choice of evils but I can present those^^^


You've basically said that you have no evidence for your argument, you can't support it, but you can laugh at me pointing out the logical flaws in your argument. If you can laugh at that, good for you. Just don't be surprised when you fail out of every college course you take from now until eternity & don't be surprised when people don't take you seriously. Like now.

Post #26   7/13/12 7:56:10PM   

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Posted by ghandikush

Are you serious, I can laugh at this. When you get an early stoppage Big Nog loses both to Tim Sylvia and Heath Herring, there are no semantics to overwrite how fucked up that is.

You seem to be mistaken as to how watching and remembering MMA works when a bunch of important fights would have gone the other way from a knockdown.



Also, this isn't even a logical point. All you're saying is that Nog losing to Sylvia and Herring is fucked up in YOUR opinion. Once again, this does nothing to support your claim.

Tim Sylvia is on a short list of UFC fighters to defend the HW title twice. Herring used to be a pretty game opponent. It's not like either of them would have RUINED Nog's career. As you so dramatically put it.

Their careers would be just fine. Quit being so dramatic.

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Post #27   7/13/12 8:01:23PM   

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Posted by BlueSkiesBurn


Posted by ghandikush

Are you serious, I can laugh at this. When you get an early stoppage Big Nog loses both to Tim Sylvia and Heath Herring, there are no semantics to overwrite how fucked up that is.

You seem to be mistaken as to how watching and remembering MMA works when a bunch of important fights would have gone the other way from a knockdown.



You can laugh at it, but you'll need to realize that you'll be the only one laughing at IT while everyone else is laughing at YOU for failing to come to terms with logical reasoning.

You're making a much of bogus claims that, by your own self-admission, you can't back up.


Posted by ghandikush I know I cant prove late is the better choice of evils but I can present those^^^


You've basically said that you have no evidence for your argument, you can't support it, but you can laugh at me pointing out the logical flaws in your argument. If you can laugh at that, good for you. Just don't be surprised when you fail out of every college course you take from now until eternity & don't be surprised when people don't take you seriously. Like now.




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Post #28   7/13/12 8:54:22PM   

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Posted by ghandikush

#2 you can say what should happen and I agree neither early or late are good, but two things are know, early stoppages are a killer in some cases, and late stoppages have never lead to death in sanctioned bouts in the UFC.



Who died from an early stoppage?

There are more serious injuries caused by late stoppages than there are from early ones.

The only thing that stands to be hurt by an early stoppage is your record.

I honestly can't think of one logical defense to the position that early stoppages are worse than late one.

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Post #29   7/13/12 9:51:27PM   

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Posted by FlashyG


Posted by ghandikush

#2 you can say what should happen and I agree neither early or late are good, but two things are know, early stoppages are a killer in some cases, and late stoppages have never lead to death in sanctioned bouts in the UFC.



Who died from an early stoppage?

There are more serious injuries caused by late stoppages than there are from early ones.

The only thing that stands to be hurt by an early stoppage is your record.

I honestly can't think of one logical defense to the position that early stoppages are worse than late one.



The early stoppage argument only applies to a record. No late stoppage has ever directly translated to a death and in the modern era I believe that also applies to major injuries.

When guys continue to get pounded on we will see concussions and broken jaws, noone ever got speared or paralysed after losing consciousness.

Again, I can suppose theres no definitive way to make one better than the other, but I would certainly take a broken jaw for a chance to come back in a fight. That is just me.

Post #30   7/14/12 12:16:57AM   
 
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