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Silva vs Sonnen Thoughts?

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grappler0000

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Posted by ncordless


Posted by grappler0000


Posted by lohmann


Posted by grappler0000

Chael appeared to eat some quad in the replay. Did the point of the knee strike Chael in the head? No. But what constitutes a knee? Just as the forearm is part of an elbow strike, why would people not consider the thigh to be part of the knee? After all, that's where most of the force is connecting when a knee is thrown. I'm just merely calling for a closer look at what connected along with what is actually considered a knee strike within the rules...or whether the rules even stipulate that sort of detail.



Parsing definitions is going to open a whole can of worms if a hearing materializes. If there's a need for a rule change as the NSAC (and by extension Unified Rules in general) tries to define what constitutes a knee as more than the joint between the femur and fibula I hope they do not penalize somebody in retrospect.

Unified Rules of Mixed Martial Arts
NSAC Rules: Unarmed Combat



Not to worry...the odds of the commission even entertaining the idea that one of their officials made a bad call is not likely.



Even if there was incidental contact with the quad (which there might have been), and the rule against knees and/or kicks to the head of a downed opponent is read to include contact with the quad (which it probably should be in situations where the fighter is kicking or kneeing . . . it can't be just any contact or else triangle chokes are illegal), it doesn't matter. For a fight result to be overturned because of a foul, the foul must have been caused the result. Here, while the knee was most likely the causal strike that ended the fight, the knee was legal and to the chest. For the fight to be overturned, the quad to the face, which is the foul, would have to be the thing that caused the result. Chael wasn't finished by a quad to the face, but rather a knee to the chest.



Oh, I was never asking for the commission to overturn anything...just merely pointing out that the knee isn't as black and white as many are saying. But contact during a legal move and contact during a "potentially" illegal move are quite different. In fact, contact with the thigh (assuming that constitutes part of the knee) in this scenario would be what actually deems it legal or illegal...by definition.

I don't completely understand your last sentence though. What qualifies us as fans to determine how much of the impact his head absorbed? All I'm saying is that it deserves a closer look than most are giving.

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Post #76   7/10/12 12:37:22PM   

ncordless

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Posted by grappler0000


Posted by ncordless


Posted by grappler0000


Posted by lohmann


Posted by grappler0000

Chael appeared to eat some quad in the replay. Did the point of the knee strike Chael in the head? No. But what constitutes a knee? Just as the forearm is part of an elbow strike, why would people not consider the thigh to be part of the knee? After all, that's where most of the force is connecting when a knee is thrown. I'm just merely calling for a closer look at what connected along with what is actually considered a knee strike within the rules...or whether the rules even stipulate that sort of detail.



Parsing definitions is going to open a whole can of worms if a hearing materializes. If there's a need for a rule change as the NSAC (and by extension Unified Rules in general) tries to define what constitutes a knee as more than the joint between the femur and fibula I hope they do not penalize somebody in retrospect.

Unified Rules of Mixed Martial Arts
NSAC Rules: Unarmed Combat



Not to worry...the odds of the commission even entertaining the idea that one of their officials made a bad call is not likely.



Even if there was incidental contact with the quad (which there might have been), and the rule against knees and/or kicks to the head of a downed opponent is read to include contact with the quad (which it probably should be in situations where the fighter is kicking or kneeing . . . it can't be just any contact or else triangle chokes are illegal), it doesn't matter. For a fight result to be overturned because of a foul, the foul must have been caused the result. Here, while the knee was most likely the causal strike that ended the fight, the knee was legal and to the chest. For the fight to be overturned, the quad to the face, which is the foul, would have to be the thing that caused the result. Chael wasn't finished by a quad to the face, but rather a knee to the chest.



Oh, I was never asking for the commission to overturn anything...just merely pointing out that the knee isn't as black and white as many are saying. But contact during a legal move and contact during a "potentially" illegal move are quite different. In fact, contact with the thigh (assuming that constitutes part of the knee) in this scenario would be what actually deems it legal or illegal...by definition.

I don't completely understand your last sentence though. What qualifies us as fans to determine how much of the impact his head absorbed? All I'm saying is that it deserves a closer look than most are giving.



Why does it deserve a closer look? Even if there was contact between the face and the quad, that contact did not dictate the outcome, therefore it is immaterial. I don't think incidental contact between the upper leg and the face is a foul. And while I might be just a fan, nearly 20 years of watching MMA has given me pretty good insight into things. Among those things is that when a person takes a blow to the head, their head snaps back. Chael does the opposite, he crumples in.

Unless the quad touching the face caused the fight to end, it doesn't matter at all because that's the only thing that would cause the result to be overturned.

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Post #77   7/10/12 1:29:25PM   

grappler0000

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Posted by ncordless


Posted by grappler0000


Posted by ncordless


Posted by grappler0000


Posted by lohmann


Posted by grappler0000

Chael appeared to eat some quad in the replay. Did the point of the knee strike Chael in the head? No. But what constitutes a knee? Just as the forearm is part of an elbow strike, why would people not consider the thigh to be part of the knee? After all, that's where most of the force is connecting when a knee is thrown. I'm just merely calling for a closer look at what connected along with what is actually considered a knee strike within the rules...or whether the rules even stipulate that sort of detail.



Parsing definitions is going to open a whole can of worms if a hearing materializes. If there's a need for a rule change as the NSAC (and by extension Unified Rules in general) tries to define what constitutes a knee as more than the joint between the femur and fibula I hope they do not penalize somebody in retrospect.

Unified Rules of Mixed Martial Arts
NSAC Rules: Unarmed Combat



Not to worry...the odds of the commission even entertaining the idea that one of their officials made a bad call is not likely.



Even if there was incidental contact with the quad (which there might have been), and the rule against knees and/or kicks to the head of a downed opponent is read to include contact with the quad (which it probably should be in situations where the fighter is kicking or kneeing . . . it can't be just any contact or else triangle chokes are illegal), it doesn't matter. For a fight result to be overturned because of a foul, the foul must have been caused the result. Here, while the knee was most likely the causal strike that ended the fight, the knee was legal and to the chest. For the fight to be overturned, the quad to the face, which is the foul, would have to be the thing that caused the result. Chael wasn't finished by a quad to the face, but rather a knee to the chest.



Oh, I was never asking for the commission to overturn anything...just merely pointing out that the knee isn't as black and white as many are saying. But contact during a legal move and contact during a "potentially" illegal move are quite different. In fact, contact with the thigh (assuming that constitutes part of the knee) in this scenario would be what actually deems it legal or illegal...by definition.

I don't completely understand your last sentence though. What qualifies us as fans to determine how much of the impact his head absorbed? All I'm saying is that it deserves a closer look than most are giving.



Why does it deserve a closer look? Even if there was contact between the face and the quad, that contact did not dictate the outcome, therefore it is immaterial. I don't think incidental contact between the upper leg and the face is a foul. And while I might be just a fan, nearly 20 years of watching MMA has given me pretty good insight into things. Among those things is that when a person takes a blow to the head, their head snaps back. Chael does the opposite, he crumples in.

Unless the quad touching the face caused the fight to end, it doesn't matter at all because that's the only thing that would cause the result to be overturned.



Without looking further into it, how could one even make that determination? It's a catch 22. Again though, I'm not looking to overturn anything. A foul is a foul though. There is nothing in the rules that states it is only illegal to knee a downed opponent in the head, if you don't do too much damage. Either it's a foul or it's not. Too much emphasis is being placed on how much damage it did to his head vs his chest. That would only come into play if the ref had stopped the action to assess. He did not, so what we are left to discuss is whether it was actually a foul or not.

For the record though, his head did snap back. It bounced off of the cage, as it had nowhere else to go.

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Post #78   7/10/12 2:38:36PM   

tmas

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for the record it was a legal knee its been proven get over it.

Post #79   7/10/12 5:41:57PM   

LightsOUT23

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That spinning back fist was the start of the end for Chael. Its almost a bit unusual for Chael to be throwing such wild out of character moves. And he fell down so easily. That spinning back fist was thrown out of sheer frustration, and landing on his ass like he did gave Silva the opportunity to pounce and end the fight. Well done Chael, you are the MW champion at smack talking, you talked yourself into the biggest paycheck of your career, then bottled it knowing you couldn't win. You looked for a way out, Throwing that spinning back fist was it !!! Congratulations Chael.

Post #80   7/11/12 8:00:31AM   

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Posted by LightsOUT23
bottled it knowing you couldn't win. You looked for a way out, Throwing that spinning back fist was it !!! Congratulations Chael.




You sir, are an imbecile.

Post #81   7/11/12 8:15:59AM   

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Posted by Adrenaline


Posted by LightsOUT23
bottled it knowing you couldn't win. You looked for a way out, Throwing that spinning back fist was it !!! Congratulations Chael.




You sir, are an imbecile.



Thank you !!!

Post #82   7/11/12 9:50:27AM   

Adrenaline

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Posted by LightsOUT23


Posted by Adrenaline


Posted by LightsOUT23
bottled it knowing you couldn't win. You looked for a way out, Throwing that spinning back fist was it !!! Congratulations Chael.




You sir, are an imbecile.



Thank you !!!




Your very welcome

Sorry about name calling, I just hope you were not being serious with that statement.

Post #83   7/11/12 7:05:08PM   

LightsOUT23

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Posted by Adrenaline


Posted by LightsOUT23


Posted by Adrenaline


Posted by LightsOUT23
bottled it knowing you couldn't win. You looked for a way out, Throwing that spinning back fist was it !!! Congratulations Chael.




You sir, are an imbecile.



Thank you !!!




Your very welcome

Sorry about name calling, I just hope you were not being serious with that statement.




Not 100% serious, but i do believe Sonnen was looking for a quick exit on that big payday !!!

Post #84   7/12/12 6:24:38PM   
 
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