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UFC 147 And UFC On FX Bouts Highlight Need For Better Utilization Of The 10 Point Must System

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prophecy033

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Fedor's retirement bout, ONE FC producing a crazy soccer kick KO, UFC on FX 4 and UFC 147. All of that happened in a span of a few days making it a big weekend for MMA fans. There were several fun bouts, and there were naturally a few head-scratchers during a stretch which had dozens of fights packed in a short time span.

When watching the two back-to-back UFC main events though, there was one prevalent idea that kept sticking out for me -- the need to properly utilize the 10-point must system.

On the UFC on FX 4 headliner, Clay Guida for the most part, pranced around and refused to engage against Gray Maynard.

For the first few rounds, nothing truly significant happened, and no one really 'won' those rounds. Even basing it on the numbers, the difference of strikes landed for both fighters were too close having just 3-5 relatively insignificant strikes separating them for the first three stanzas. Those rounds were as close as you will ever get, making it perfect example of true 10-10 rounds. There were no takedowns, or any grappling whatsoever, so the call should've been easier. Yet for some unknown reason, the judges still felt that they had to give a winner to all of those rounds, eventually leading to a very questionable split decision.

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Post #1   6/24/12 2:37:53PM   

pmoney

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I literally said to BlueSkiesBurn it's the "10 point must" system, not the "10-9 must" system yesterday before UFC 147.

It's obvious to anyone who knows fights that judging in combat sports has serious issues. Boxing has been around for hundreds of years, and we still got the Bradley-Pacquiao decision.

Last edited 6/24/12 3:04PM server time by pmoney
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Post #2   6/24/12 2:58:52PM   

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Posted by pmoney

I was just saying yesterday it's the "10 point must" system, not the "10-9 must" system.

I never understood why it was always 10-9. I've seen on multiple occasions a round that wasn't clearly won by either fighter but both had good round. Those are 10-10 rounds

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Post #3   6/24/12 3:03:59PM   

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It seems like such a simple issue to solve. Hire people that have experience with the sport. Boom, bad judging almost completely disappears. It seems like the commission just doesn't care. Their reaction to Pacquiao/Bradley was alarming imo. I mean how can you possibly justify scoring the fight the way it was. You would think someone would be fired or something.

When you constantly fuck up McChickens McDonalds is going to fire you. And that's a minimum wage job that a lot of people can do. We're talking about an MMA judge here. Someone that is doing this as a career. Yet they don't have a clue what they are watching and constantly fuck things up for not only the fans who pay to see it but the fighters that work their asses off so they can earn money to provide for their families and to keep them doing the thing they love. When a judge fucks up a score people get upset and brush it off days/weeks later. Not the fighter who was screwed. He ends up making half the money he was supposed to. Not every organization is the ufc. Some guys get screwed and it's "Oh well, mma judging strikes again". No. Fuck that. That's garbage and it needs to be fixed.

I'm a chubby 21 year old that sits behind his computer and types this shit out completely frustrated and I'm getting fired up the way I am. How the hell can the people who hire these morons not be as livid as I am? It makes them look terrible. They are always getting shit for it. Fix the damn problem already.

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Post #4   6/24/12 3:15:50PM   

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The good thing tho Budge is when Dana thinks a fighter got screwed be REALLY makes it up to you. I know that doesn't change the lose on their record and you're still pissed, you get your win bonus and Dana probably scratches that fight from his memory and probably adds a fight to your contract

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Post #5   6/24/12 3:19:56PM   

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Posted by prophecy033

The good thing tho Budge is when Dana thinks a fighter got screwed be REALLY makes it up to you. I know that doesn't change the lose on their record and you're still pissed, you get your win bonus and Dana probably scratches that fight from his memory and probably adds a fight to your contract



Dana and the UFC are awesome for that reason. They're putting in an effort that I couldn't respect more. What about dudes fighting in XFC or MFC or ROTC or KOTC or One FC or Shark Fights or any of those promotions who can't afford to do that though? They get screwed because some jackass can't count to 30 or doesn't like the sport enough to really pay attention or whatever reason there is for the incompetence. It seems like everyone BUT the people that hire these judges care and want things changed. My issue is entirely with these commissions.

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Post #6   6/24/12 3:37:50PM   

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Posted by Budgellism


Posted by prophecy033

The good thing tho Budge is when Dana thinks a fighter got screwed be REALLY makes it up to you. I know that doesn't change the lose on their record and you're still pissed, you get your win bonus and Dana probably scratches that fight from his memory and probably adds a fight to your contract



Dana and the UFC are awesome for that reason. They're putting in an effort that I couldn't respect more. What about dudes fighting in XFC or MFC or ROTC or KOTC or One FC or Shark Fights or any of those promotions who can't afford to do that though? They get screwed because some jackass can't count to 30 or doesn't like the sport enough to really pay attention or whatever reason there is for the incompetence. It seems like everyone BUT the people that hire these judges care and want things changed. My issue is entirely with these commissions.

I agree, fighters are getting screwed and it needs to be fixed and people need to be held accountable...judges and Refs alike

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Post #7   6/24/12 3:50:58PM   

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Posted by prophecy033


Posted by Budgellism


Posted by prophecy033

The good thing tho Budge is when Dana thinks a fighter got screwed be REALLY makes it up to you. I know that doesn't change the lose on their record and you're still pissed, you get your win bonus and Dana probably scratches that fight from his memory and probably adds a fight to your contract



Dana and the UFC are awesome for that reason. They're putting in an effort that I couldn't respect more. What about dudes fighting in XFC or MFC or ROTC or KOTC or One FC or Shark Fights or any of those promotions who can't afford to do that though? They get screwed because some jackass can't count to 30 or doesn't like the sport enough to really pay attention or whatever reason there is for the incompetence. It seems like everyone BUT the people that hire these judges care and want things changed. My issue is entirely with these commissions.

I agree, fighters are getting screwed and it needs to be fixed and people need to be held accountable...judges and Refs alike



Lol, I don't even want to get started on refs. One rant is enough for one day

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Post #8   6/24/12 3:53:02PM   

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Drama in mma. who knew.

Post #9   6/24/12 5:07:31PM   

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I am not trying to be rude, but some people on here are showing a lack of knowledge when it comes to the UFC judging criteria. The MMA system calls for the judge to decide the round based off of more than just takedowns and punches landed. The people who drew up the MMA rules realized there are dead periods in fights and rounds without action. That is why they added octagon control and agressiveness.


E. Judging Criteria
1. Judges are required to determine the winner of a bout that goes to it's full time limit based upon the following criteria:
-Clean Strikes
-Effective Grappling
B]-Octagon Control
B]-Effective Aggressiveness



J. Octagon Control
1. The fighter who is dictating the pace, place and position of the fight.
2. A striker who fends off a grappler's takedown attempt to remain standing and effectively strike is octagon control.
3. A grappler who can takedown an effective standing striker to ground fight is octagon control.
4. The fighter on the ground who creates submission, mount or clean striking opportunities

I see nothing that says running around the cage trying not to get hit. Gray dictated the pace and place of teh fight as Guida did not engage Maynard. Guida moving backwards without striking is not dictating the pace or place. Gray is the one who engaged and caused 90% of the action.




K. Effective Aggressiveness
1. This simply means who is moving forward and finding success.(scoring)
2. Throwing a strike moving backwards is not as effective as a strike thrown moving forward.
3. Throwing strikes and not landing is not effective aggressiveness.
4. Moving forward and getting struck is not effective aggressiveness.
5. Shooting takedowns and getting countered and fended off is not effective aggressiveness.

To me the effective agressiveness was almost all Gray. Guida did very little, especially in rounds 3 and 4. By these standards I see no way Gray lost the fight.


IN the end there are clearly other stndards to consider than just strikes and takedowns. Those things are used to decide a fight such as Maynard/Guida. I see NOTHING that says if you move around and refuse to engage that you get scored for that or win a fight. I do see the things Gray did in landing shots and trying to engage the fight as reasons to give him rounds.

As far as 10-10 rounds, I have no problem giving them out if you think the round is truely equal, I have on many occasions. Howeevr, I am not going to give out a 10-10 for a guy dancing around and refusing to fight. The real issue with this fight is that Miragliatta should have warned Guida 3 rounds sooner, as he was doing less in rounds 2-4 than he did when warned.

Post #10   6/24/12 6:55:26PM   

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Posted by prophecy033

The good thing tho Budge is when Dana thinks a fighter got screwed be REALLY makes it up to you. I know that doesn't change the lose on their record and you're still pissed, you get your win bonus and Dana probably scratches that fight from his memory and probably adds a fight to your contract




Dana isnt going to be rewarding Guida, he ripped him apart on twitter. Rightly so I may add. His rope-a-dope didnt work and he lost. Poeple need to get on with life.

Post #11   6/24/12 7:00:01PM   

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Posted by lll-lll


Posted by prophecy033

The good thing tho Budge is when Dana thinks a fighter got screwed be REALLY makes it up to you. I know that doesn't change the lose on their record and you're still pissed, you get your win bonus and Dana probably scratches that fight from his memory and probably adds a fight to your contract




Dana isnt going to be rewarding Guida, he ripped him apart on twitter. Rightly so I may add. His rope-a-dope didnt work and he lost. Poeple need to get on with life.

Did you read any of what I wrote. Look at the Bold print.

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Post #12   6/24/12 7:45:25PM   

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I always get ticked about this as well. It is always a 10-9 round and once in a blue moon we see a judge score a 10-8 round. There are no 10/10s or 10/7s or 10/6s just like the article says. The MMA judges are complete morons for the most part. Sometimes I wonder what they were doing when they were supposed to be watching the fight. Their scores make it apparent that they are either not paying attention very well or they don't know what they are doing. I am not a fan of the 10 point scoring system...but maybe that is because it isn't used properly by the judges. Personally I would like to see more draws. I feel that many of the UD and SD fights should have been draws. Many are really too close to pick an actual winner. This would save a lot of fighters careers. I don't know how many fighters I see who have 4 or 5 UD losses on their record when most of those were very close and maybe too close to even call. With more draws in MMA a guy who is now 15-8 might have a record of 15-3-5...which looks much better and might in fact be more realistic. I am not sure how to solve the judge problem though. Maybe the athletic commission could tell them to use the rest of the scoring options more often. Who knows.

Post #13   6/24/12 7:54:53PM   

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Posted by prophecy033


Posted by lll-lll


Posted by prophecy033

The good thing tho Budge is when Dana thinks a fighter got screwed be REALLY makes it up to you. I know that doesn't change the lose on their record and you're still pissed, you get your win bonus and Dana probably scratches that fight from his memory and probably adds a fight to your contract




Dana isnt going to be rewarding Guida, he ripped him apart on twitter. Rightly so I may add. His rope-a-dope didnt work and he lost. Poeple need to get on with life.

Did you read any of what I wrote. Look at the Bold print.



I wasnt pointing that directly at you. Just pointing out that Guida aint getting adamn thing. Dana was not happy at all with that fight.

Post #14   6/24/12 9:02:50PM   

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Posted by Sir_Karl

I always get ticked about this as well. It is always a 10-9 round and once in a blue moon we see a judge score a 10-8 round. There are no 10/10s or 10/7s or 10/6s just like the article says. The MMA judges are complete morons for the most part. Sometimes I wonder what they were doing when they were supposed to be watching the fight. Their scores make it apparent that they are either not paying attention very well or they don't know what they are doing. I am not a fan of the 10 point scoring system...but maybe that is because it isn't used properly by the judges. Personally I would like to see more draws. I feel that many of the UD and SD fights should have been draws. Many are really too close to pick an actual winner. This would save a lot of fighters careers. I don't know how many fighters I see who have 4 or 5 UD losses on their record when most of those were very close and maybe too close to even call. With more draws in MMA a guy who is now 15-8 might have a record of 15-3-5...which looks much better and might in fact be more realistic. I am not sure how to solve the judge problem though. Maybe the athletic commission could tell them to use the rest of the scoring options more often. Who knows.



If the sport had that many draws you would be back to watching it on youtube and other internet sites. No way it would survive with that kind of judging.

Post #15   6/24/12 9:04:05PM   
 
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