Dana White on Clay Guida strategy vs. Maynard at UFC on FX 4: 'The fight sucked' |
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isk
Standup Guy
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Posted by pmoney
This was absolutely not worse than Diaz-Condit. Guida hurt Gray, Condit never hurt Diaz. Yet because everyone hates Diaz, it's ok for Condit to win that fight. When no one has a dog in the fight though, it's "Fuck that boring dude for running!" Meanwhile, Condit was turning his back and ACTUALLY running, while Guida was using superior cardio and footwork to side step.
With respect, I disagree. Fightmetric has Condit landing about 3 times as many strikes as Guida (151 to 45) in the same timeframe. Almost all of these were standing strikes with lots of leg kicks. In one of the rounds, Guida landed single digit strikes. That's embarrassing in a standup fight.
It's not a bad point that Maynard was stunned for a moment due to a punch/head kick combo, but it lasted all of a second. Maynard didn't fall or even have his knees buckled - he just looked fazed for a second and went right back at it. Not to mention his taunting late in R4 where Guida could've landed anything. Instead, he hit him with a couple average shots that seemed to do little actual damage.
For my money, I think Maynard's guillotine in R4 was more of a threat than the stun from Guida's HK, especially because Guida didn't try to finish afterwards.
I'm not a Maynard nuthugger or anything, I think this fight showed he's worked on his cardio but still needs to learn how to cut off the cage against the faster LWs in the division, but I feel he won the fight and I think the stats back it up.
Last edited 6/23/12 12:36PM by isk
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #16 6/23/12 12:35:27PM
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meier
Standup Guy
Career record: 442-430
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The only thing im impressed with is how HOT! Its been in east tennessee lately its no arizona heat but cmon we need rain here! Oh and the fight was terrible. Could have had more fun staring at the walls.
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Post #17 6/23/12 12:39:23PM
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pmoney
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 524-304
Season: 19-5 (#343)
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Posted by FlashyG
When did Guida hurt Maynard in that fight?
the closest I remember is when he landed the head kick and even then I wouldn't say Gray was hurt. I personally don't think either fighter was hurt other than some superficial damage to their faces.
As far as the comparison between Condit and Guida's fights, Condit landed 159 shots, and connected with almost 50% accuracy. Guida landed just 49 and landed with only 14% accuracy.
They may have used similar strategies but if you want to dance and counterstrike, you have to hit your opponent more than he hits you. Guida didn't do that and rightfully lost the fight because of it.
I see your point. But at the same time, what was the official count on strikes? Maynard landed like 2-5 more strikes according to the stats I saw. I defer to the quality of strikes, which I think was in Clay's favor.
I'm not trying to convince you or anyone that that was either a good fight, or that Clay won. I am just voicing my displeasure with what I perceive as an ever changing standard on how fights are judged, both officially and publicly.
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Post #18 6/23/12 12:41:44PM
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The_Casualty
MMA Regular
Career record: 841-531
Season: 21-3 (#60)
Location: Toronto, Canada
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Boring fight, decent game plan for Guida tho, I figured he would have to stay moving to avoid Maynards strength but he over did it
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Post #19 6/23/12 12:43:35PM
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FlashyG
MMA Sensei
Career record: 913-492
Season: 17-7 (#505)
Location: Toronto
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Posted by pmoney
Posted by FlashyG
When did Guida hurt Maynard in that fight?
the closest I remember is when he landed the head kick and even then I wouldn't say Gray was hurt. I personally don't think either fighter was hurt other than some superficial damage to their faces.
As far as the comparison between Condit and Guida's fights, Condit landed 159 shots, and connected with almost 50% accuracy. Guida landed just 49 and landed with only 14% accuracy.
They may have used similar strategies but if you want to dance and counterstrike, you have to hit your opponent more than he hits you. Guida didn't do that and rightfully lost the fight because of it.
I see your point. But at the same time, what was the official count on strikes? Maynard landed like 2-5 more strikes according to the stats I saw. I defer to the quality of strikes, which I think was in Clay's favor.
I'm not trying to convince you or anyone that that was either a good fight, or that Clay won. I am just voicing my displeasure with what I perceive as an ever changing standard on how fights are judged, both officially and publicly.
Final fight stats
Maynard - 52 of 229 22.7 % 1 of 9 takedowns 1 sub attempt. 0 passes
Guida - 49 of 327 14.9 % 0 of 3 takedowns 0 sub attempts 1 pass
Link for Round by Round stats
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Post #20 6/23/12 12:47:44PM
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frizzzlecake
MMA Sensei
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Agreed Dana Agreed.
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Post #21 6/23/12 1:01:03PM
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FastKnockout
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 525-315
Season: 16-8 (#1027)
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The way I see it.. When the crowd goes from cheering you to booing mid-fight, that means you're doing something wrong.. We witnessed the crowd go from love to hate within 15, then loathing for the last 10.
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Post #22 6/23/12 1:13:48PM
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KE Released in MAtter
Career record: 607-362
Season: 20-4 (#268)
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I think if Guida wants to continue that style, he would be better served learning caporia (sp). It's a similar style that most people aren't familiar with, he may have exceptional success in the cage and outside the cage because it's something few people utilize, but with his footwork and cardio, he could keep it up and throw those crazy kicks without much threat of being taken down.
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Post #23 6/23/12 1:17:14PM
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isk
Standup Guy
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Posted by airkerma
I think if Guida wants to continue that style, he would be better served learning caporia (sp). It's a similar style that most people aren't familiar with, he may have exceptional success in the cage and outside the cage because it's something few people utilize, but with his footwork and cardio, he could keep it up and throw those crazy kicks without much threat of being taken down.
Even better if he weaves his hair into dreads and starts wearing green trunks, to complete the Eddy Gordo look.
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Post #24 6/23/12 1:37:52PM
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mrsmiley
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 911-532
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I gotta give Guida the benefit of the doubt here.
Yeah we were all expecting more but I mean with a guy like Maynard I could see why you would want to play it a bit safer. I'm not saying it was the best strategy but any other way I see Maynard taking him easy.
Just my two cents.
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Post #25 6/23/12 1:53:20PM
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isk
Standup Guy
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Posted by mrsmiley
I gotta give Guida the benefit of the doubt here.
Yeah we were all expecting more but I mean with a guy like Maynard I could see why you would want to play it a bit safer. I'm not saying it was the best strategy but any other way I see Maynard taking him easy.
Just my two cents.
For sure. I'm not questioning the idea behind the strategy, more of the execution and the specifics. Condit showed that he can come in with a slippery, points-centric performance and still land a lot of strikes to control the fight while taking minimal damage.
If Guida had landed as many strikes as Condit - or even 100, as many as Diaz but double on Maynard - I'd be a little disappointed with the lack of fireworks but felt he'd clearly have won the fight. With all the moving he did, and with his considerable speed advantage, he had every opportunity to do more damage. Plus, the one time Guida had Maynard anything close to dazed, he stayed back and kept bobbing around.
One of the reasons I'm not hating on Guida after this fight is that, hey, sometimes fighters have bad performances. If it happens again, I think that would mark a problem.
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Post #26 6/23/12 2:11:57PM
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mrsmiley
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 911-532
Season: 21-3 (#55)
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Posted by isk
Posted by mrsmiley
I gotta give Guida the benefit of the doubt here.
Yeah we were all expecting more but I mean with a guy like Maynard I could see why you would want to play it a bit safer. I'm not saying it was the best strategy but any other way I see Maynard taking him easy.
Just my two cents.
For sure. I'm not questioning the idea behind the strategy, more of the execution and the specifics.
Exactly.
I think to part of what hurts this to is that I honestly believe Dana should know better by now. Yes,we all want to see exciting fights. No one wants to watch a boring fight. Those two words shouldn't even be in a sentence together. Yet on paper I can see why Guida did what he did.
Why should Guida or any fighter for that matter be so simple and two dimensional as to always fight they same fight every match out,especially when this go against their own best interest?
Even though we all love Wandy for his mud stomping ass kickings from the pride days even he knew when a slight dichotomy in stratedgy was needed to improve his success rate.
I think this is an interesting topic at hand because is their any distinguishing point at which we can appreciate a fight for what the contestants are trying to attempt(strategy wise) opposed to what they actually achieve?
Last edited 6/23/12 2:54PM by mrsmiley
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Post #27 6/23/12 2:50:01PM
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We're in Lodi, bitch!
Career record: 950-500
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Posted by Shawn91111
Really? That pile of shit was entertaining to you? I can find enjoyment in most fights, but that was horrible. Look at round 4 for specific and blatant turning his back on Gray and running.
Agreed 100%. He definitely turned and SPRINTED to get away.
That fight was a steamy pile of shit. By the end of the fight, *I* wanted to punch Guida.
Good strategy? Okay, maybe. But both Clay and Greg Jackson can shove it straight up their asses.
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Post #28 6/23/12 3:05:19PM
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bjj1605
MMA Sensei
Career record: 889-537
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I hated the fight like most of you.
I also scored it for Guida but was hoping that Maynard would get the win because Clay pissed me off.
But really I don't see this as a big change for Guida. I've never thought he was a very exciting fighter.
He definitely moves around a lot. But he's always been one of those guys with lots of show and little substance IMO. This fight was just a bit more exaggerated.
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Post #29 6/23/12 4:20:42PM
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The Playground OG
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Posted by bjj1605
I hated the fight like most of you.
I also scored it for Guida but was hoping that Maynard would get the win because Clay pissed me off.
But really I don't see this as a big change for Guida. I've never thought he was a very exciting fighter.
He definitely moves around a lot. But he's always been one of those guys with lots of show and little substance IMO. This fight was just a bit more exaggerated.
My thoughts exactly. This fight got a big (look below) from me...
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Ron Paul 2016
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Post #30 6/23/12 4:40:34PM
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