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Televisions vs. Guns

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Mastodon2

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Posted by pv3Hpv3p

Out of curiousity, what do you think about people that go out and kill (hunt) for more than just trophies?

What I mean is, living in MN i have a lot of friends that hunt, and every year after deer season, I eat venison for the next couple of months... As far as I know, they use as much of the deer as possible (maybe not to the extent as the native americans did), and none of them are in it "for the blood" or to bring (un-needed) suffering upon the animal...

I agree with you though, I don't condone killing an animal just for the mount or whatever, but I understand where the other half comes from as well...



Im totally down with hunting for food, after all, mankind rose to its feet from hunting animals for food, and many tribes across the world still do it, but someone to go out and kill for a pelt and a head to hang on the wall is not worth it. I dont give credit to trophy hunters, because while there is an element of skill involved in hunting with modern weaponry, its still somewhat unfair on the animals.

However, when we are talking about tribes who have rites of passage where the boys must kill an animals with a sword or spear or whatever to become men, thats fair enough, because its ancient tradition, and the animal is often consumed, so credit to them for not wasting the animal, and for killing it up close where its much more a true test of raw skill.


If anyone wants to question my views I welcome it, as I enjoy learning other peopls perspectives, lets try to keep it cool though, we are all friends here and we dont need some huge argument about trophy hunting.

Post #16   5/24/07 6:51:54PM   

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I just cant see what you can get out of somthing that has no chance of defending itself, and is just trying to get along with its life like everything else. But if thats what it takes to make you feel like the dominant man that you are, then whatever. In terms of killing an animal to protect yourself, well theres just nothing else you can really do....

Last edited 5/24/07 8:32PM server time by skiba97
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Post #17   5/24/07 8:31:28PM   

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I saw "Cancelled" earlier this evening, its an episode of Southpark. It reminds me a lot of this thread, haha.

www.4spark.com

Post #18   5/24/07 11:27:14PM   

Svartorm

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Posted by Mastodon2

Im totally down with hunting for food, after all, mankind rose to its feet from hunting animals for food, and many tribes across the world still do it, but someone to go out and kill for a pelt and a head to hang on the wall is not worth it. I dont give credit to trophy hunters, because while there is an element of skill involved in hunting with modern weaponry, its still somewhat unfair on the animals.

However, when we are talking about tribes who have rites of passage where the boys must kill an animals with a sword or spear or whatever to become men, thats fair enough, because its ancient tradition, and the animal is often consumed, so credit to them for not wasting the animal, and for killing it up close where its much more a true test of raw skill.


If anyone wants to question my views I welcome it, as I enjoy learning other peopls perspectives, lets try to keep it cool though, we are all friends here and we dont need some huge argument about trophy hunting.



Oh, I'm not hunting bears, as I don't like bear meat and don't like killing predators. The thing with Montana is that its illegal to hunt bear there, so the bear populations have gotten to be rather large and bear are curious creatures, so they'll wander right into a camp site and rip your vehicles, backpacks, tents, etc to shreds, just to see whats inside them. I've already got some air horns, which should scare the shit out of a bear before it gets too close, but barring that, I have to be able to protect myself and friends from a bear if they decide to attack.

In the event that I end up killing a bear, I have to call a game warden, and he'll take care of the hide, claws, skull and meat, which gets donated to different organizations, so nothing gets wasted.

I'm taking up elk hunting for sure, and small game is legal to hunt year round on your own property, so I'll probably be dining on some rabbits, fowl, etc this summer.

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Post #19   5/25/07 4:28:10AM   

Svartorm

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Posted by skiba97
I just cant see what you can get out of somthing that has no chance of defending itself, and is just trying to get along with its life like everything else. But if thats what it takes to make you feel like the dominant man that you are, then whatever. In terms of killing an animal to protect yourself, well theres just nothing else you can really do....



Hunting is one of the most dangerous sports in existence because animals aren't half as defenseless as you might think. The odds of a deer or moose killing you are pretty slim, but boar, bears, lions, elephants, etc will do you in if you don't know what you're doing.

Also, while some guys go hunting to "man up", you'll find the vast majority of people do it to feed themselves, the joy of being part of nature, the thrill of the hunt, etc. In my experience, most of the tough guy hunters are actually really bad at it, as they don't have the patience for it.

And as an aside, trophy hunting is actually bringing parts of Africa out of brutal poverty. Some countries allow villages to rise large game and sell hunting licences to overseas hunters, who will pay upwards of $5000 to hunt an elephant, giraffe or cape buffalo to name a few. The village makes money by selling the licence, accomidating the hunter, renting themselves out as guides, and the hunter has to give them the carcass, so they get to eat as well. The hunter is happy, and the village basically just made a pile of cash for doing nothing but keeping an eye on local herds and figuring out how many licences they can sell a year.

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Post #20   5/25/07 4:37:54AM   

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Lions and elephants, these are rare and endangered animals, if one goes rouge and starts killing humans sure they need to be humanly killed, but hunting these guys with high powered rifles with telescopic sights is just wrong. I am no city boy I grew up on a farm and I respect and fear nature I dont have any delusions about how nice it is out in the wild and how cute the animals are. At the end of the day there is no skill and no danger in shooting an animal from a mile away with a gun, in an area you got to in motorised transport. If you went back to using bows and made hunting areas reachable only by foot that would be fair, that way a hunter would have to be fit and skillful and the animal would have a fair chance.
As to the africa thing the reason there econonmy is so messed up is that we the west keep selling there governments guns so they can fight over dwindeling resouces that we have all but plundered. That puts the country and the people into debt and makes their lives hard, so if it is the difference between losing their traditional respect for the the animals or watching their families starve of course they are willing to let us butcher their wildlife. Lets just not be total hippercrites and ask them to thank us for it huh.

Post #21   5/25/07 5:44:07AM   

Mastodon2

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Id rather that rogue Elephants were just rehoused on reserves or away from settlements, aggressive males are a part of every animals hierarchy, killing them only disrupts the order, and causes an anarchy in their social order, which in turn leads to more of them going berzerk!


As for Svartorm's point about game not being as defenseless as you might think, I totally agree! 99.9% of the time, a moose that gets shot at,and missed or not instantly crippled or killed will run, but sometimes they charge, and if you arent a good distance away they will get you, and I know I sure wouldnt want a a frightened and aggressive Bull Moose Charging at me, thats 1500lbs of hoof and horn I dont need in my personal space man!

Post #22   5/25/07 4:56:01PM   

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Posted by MethodMan

At the end of the day there is no skill and no danger in shooting an animal from a mile away with a gun, in an area you got to in motorised transport.



And this shows just how little you know about the subject.


As to the africa thing the reason there econonmy is so messed up is that we the west keep selling there governments guns so they can fight over dwindeling resouces that we have all but plundered.


A majority of firearms found in Africa are of Egyptian and Soviet design. I've never seen an AR-15 in African hands. Its always an AK. Go yell at Egypt if you have a problem with it.


That puts the country and the people into debt and makes their lives hard, so if it is the difference between losing their traditional respect for the the animals or watching their families starve of course they are willing to let us butcher their wildlife. Lets just not be total hippercrites and ask them to thank us for it huh.


You do realize the vast majority of Africans hunt with rifles, right? They're not morons and are going to stalk a rhino with a spear if they can shoot it with a .458 from a blind.

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Post #23   5/25/07 6:25:18PM   

Svartorm

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Posted by Mastodon2

As for Svartorm's point about game not being as defenseless as you might think, I totally agree! 99.9% of the time, a moose that gets shot at,and missed or not instantly crippled or killed will run, but sometimes they charge, and if you arent a good distance away they will get you, and I know I sure wouldnt want a a frightened and aggressive Bull Moose Charging at me, thats 1500lbs of hoof and horn I dont need in my personal space man!



My father used to help out the Deputy Sheriff in gutting deer or moose that get hit by cars, and one time a lady hit a moose a little ways from our house. The officer on scene, for whatever reason, decided he'd put it out of its misery and shoot it with his 9mm. He shot it, and the moose stood up made to kill the cop, but instead ran into the woods and died a few moments later. Moose aren't to be ****** with.

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Post #24   5/25/07 6:30:42PM   

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Posted by Svartorm


Posted by Mastodon2

Im totally down with hunting for food, after all, mankind rose to its feet from hunting animals for food, and many tribes across the world still do it, but someone to go out and kill for a pelt and a head to hang on the wall is not worth it. I dont give credit to trophy hunters, because while there is an element of skill involved in hunting with modern weaponry, its still somewhat unfair on the animals.

However, when we are talking about tribes who have rites of passage where the boys must kill an animals with a sword or spear or whatever to become men, thats fair enough, because its ancient tradition, and the animal is often consumed, so credit to them for not wasting the animal, and for killing it up close where its much more a true test of raw skill.


If anyone wants to question my views I welcome it, as I enjoy learning other peopls perspectives, lets try to keep it cool though, we are all friends here and we dont need some huge argument about trophy hunting.



Oh, I'm not hunting bears, as I don't like bear meat and don't like killing predators. The thing with Montana is that its illegal to hunt bear there, so the bear populations have gotten to be rather large and bear are curious creatures, so they'll wander right into a camp site and rip your vehicles, backpacks, tents, etc to shreds, just to see whats inside them. I've already got some air horns, which should scare the shit out of a bear before it gets too close, but barring that, I have to be able to protect myself and friends from a bear if they decide to attack.

In the event that I end up killing a bear, I have to call a game warden, and he'll take care of the hide, claws, skull and meat, which gets donated to different organizations, so nothing gets wasted.

I'm taking up elk hunting for sure, and small game is legal to hunt year round on your own property, so I'll probably be dining on some rabbits, fowl, etc this summer.



Where i come from you always have the right to defend yourself....... against Bears.
Many times Bears have come around my Grand parents house. And a few times shot at. Once my Grandfather killed one. Its pelt is still in the shed. He didnt display it on wall but hung it over a old cask in the corner it wasnt a trophy for him but just something he had. He died awhile back but the skin is still there. All raggedy it might bee but only a few bears have dared come back on his land since.

Post #25   5/25/07 6:46:35PM   

Svartorm

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You always have the right to self-defense, but not always to hunt.

If I did end up killing a bear, I'd probably use the hide as a blanket or something. I bet it would be warm.

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Post #26   5/25/07 7:46:37PM   

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Post #27   5/28/07 6:55:37PM   

Svartorm

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Oh sure, hes cute now, but wait a few years.....

Actually, I read a pretty ****** up story about a polar bear during WW2. Two US soldiers stationed in the far north of Alaska ran into a polar bear and shot it 16 times with their M-1 Garands. It ran them down and killed them before it bled to death. Thats ******* crazy that something can absorb 16 rounds of 30-06 and still take you out.

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Post #28   5/28/07 9:10:27PM   

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which part is f#cked up, that the soldiers killed a bear for no reason or the bear got revenge

Post #29   5/28/07 9:28:51PM   

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No, they ran into it while fishing and it started coming for them, so they tried to drop it before it could close the distance. They both emptied their rifles and it still took them out before it died. Polar and Kodiak bears are extremely territorial, which sucks as they're the most dangerous bears out there. We have black bears around here, but they're pussies. You yell at them and they run away and if not you can slap them on the nose and they'll run. You yell at a Kodiak and it'll kill your ass.

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Post #30   5/28/07 9:45:30PM   
 
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