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Condit Accepts Rematch with Diaz

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BeeR

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my bad, I should have said 'significantly" outstriking

which carlos did.

Post #31   2/8/12 7:21:29AM   

Travesty145

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Posted by Kpro


Posted by BeeR

yet he still out struck diaz
= winning the fight.



I'm not referring to this fight, because it's been talked about to death, but that statement is wrong.

30 jabs aren't better than 29 overhand rights.




unless that jab is mine. i sling a mean one

Post #32   2/8/12 7:23:47AM   

pmoney

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Posted by ianinspain

Fight metrics

Fighter Sig. Str. Sig. Str. % Total Str. TD
Condit 151 of 320 47% 159 of 329 0 of 0
Diaz 105 of 246 43% 117 of 258 1 of 3

........

Not the whole picture I know but seems pretty straight forward to me. If you are backing up and still striking then so what - do you have to walk forward to strike? Ask the dragon or the many others who do the same thing.



FightMetric stats are overrated, in my opinion. How many pitter patter shots did Fitch land against BJ Penn in the third round of their fight? BJ would be dead underneath Fitch if fights didn't have time limits. Yet people say either that draw should have been a W for BJ, or they shit on Fitch for going to a draw with a lightweight.

To me, Nick had Carlos in danger, not vice versa. Nick was fighting his fight, forcing Carlos to react with leg kicks.

What did these leg kicks accomplish? Well, they didn't keep Nick at range. Carlos wouldn't have been backing off and running if that were the case. They obviously didn't stop the fight. Nick's pace and movement seemed to hold up just as well, if not better than Condit's. (going off round 5)

If I recall, Nick wasn't even on the injured list in any capacity after 25 minutes. No cracked ribs from those vicious kicks? Either Nick is Wolverine, or Carlos didn't do a damn thing to him. I think it's the latter.

In spite of my numerous posts, I am not trying to shit on Condit or anyone else but I simply think Diaz won that fight. All anyone has to go on are the striking stats. What FightMetric considers significant is crap, IMO. Either way, the numbers in striking are close. But Effective Grappling, Aggression, and Octagon Control? I don't see how Nick couldn't have won all three of those.

To summarize though... I scored Rounds 1, 2, and 5 for Diaz. I probably should have left it at that.

Post #33   2/8/12 7:57:00AM   

BeeR

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well , i have a solution, we will remove kicks all together.
And wrestling and BJJ while we're at it, because thats gay shit,
make the octagon a small square ring, with ropes, so if a fighter backs up, the ref will re position the fighters.


we'll call it.....I dont know, hows Boxing? that sounds like a good name.

Post #34   2/8/12 8:18:09AM   

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Posted by pmoney
Do you remember watching that fight and saying that fighter executed a good gameplan?




Shogun vs. Machida 1. Look at the statistics for that fight. I'd say people were maybe more up in arms about Shogun losing that fight than Diaz this one. The difference though, is that Shogun did outstrike Machida, something Diaz couldn't do to Condit. Shogun was forced to solve the puzzle of Machida with a good gameplan. He did that mostly with leg kicks. Condit was forced to solve the Diaz puzzle, and he followed Greg Jackson's gameplan to do that. I just find it very impressive that he was maybe the only fighter I've seen to never give in to Diaz's taunts.

I'm with KPro though, I think this is my last post on this subject. I'm tired of talking to a brick wall.

Last edited 2/8/12 8:23AM server time by gartface
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Post #35   2/8/12 8:21:18AM   

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Posted by gartface


Posted by pmoney
Do you remember watching that fight and saying that fighter executed a good gameplan?




Shogun vs. Machida 1. Look at the statistics for that fight. I'd say people were maybe more up in arms about Shogun losing that fight than Diaz this one. The difference though, is that Shogun did outstrike Machida, something Diaz couldn't do to Condit. Shogun was forced to solve the puzzle of Machida with a good gameplan. He did that mostly with leg kicks. Condit was forced to solve the Diaz puzzle, and he followed Greg Jackson's gameplan to do that. I just find it very impressive that he was maybe the only fighter I've seen to never give in to Diaz's taunts.

I'm with KPro though, I think this is my last post on this subject. I'm tired of talking to a brick wall.


Watch that fight on mute though, then you'll know who really won
But seriously though, good call that was the first fight that came to mind when pmoney mentioned that aspect of the fight.

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Post #36   2/8/12 8:25:48AM   

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Posted by BeeR

well , i have a solution, we will remove kicks all together.
And wrestling and BJJ while we're at it, because thats gay shit,
make the octagon a small square ring, with ropes, so if a fighter backs up, the ref will re position the fighters.


we'll call it.....I dont know, hows Boxing? that sounds like a good name.





Yeah Aiker, that's the first thing I thought the other night. I just got agitated because that's an example of a fight where people constantly quote the statistics to make their point that Shogun got robbed, but refute the statistics during the Diaz fight because they're crap.

Post #37   2/8/12 8:33:05AM   

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I thought it was quite interesting that Joe Rogan watched the fight a 2nd time and thought Diaz won after initially believing Condit won.

I'm already stoked for the rematch. I hope it ends up being the war that the first one didn't turn out to be.

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Post #38   2/8/12 8:39:08AM   

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Props for condit even though his back was to the wall
This could happen in May Vegas. Or July.

Post #39   2/8/12 9:30:08AM   

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I'm guessing Dana is making it worth Condit's time and efforts. I'm guessing Condit's bank account will be quite a bit bigger after this one.

Post #40   2/8/12 9:43:48AM   

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i hope this fight is signed. people need to realize that Condit didnt outstrike Diaz in the conventional sense - he landed a shit ton of ineffective leg kicks (for reasons p$ said). what is more significant, leg kicks or punches to the face? Diaz landed more head shots in that fight.

no I didnt expect Condit to stay in the pocket all fight, but he DID NOT move forward to throw any of those strikes. all his leg kicks, whiffed spinning backfists, and punches came as he was backing up. for those who compare him to Machida need to give their head a shake. Machida does back up or evade a lot but he also darts in for his strikes and combos...Condit did not press forward at all for 25 minutes


Posted by jjeans

The uncounted statistic

Back more than 180 degrees to Diaz, not counting 90 degrees or spinning strikes
Condit turned 3 times in round 1
7 in round 2
4
5
2

21 total

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Post #41   2/8/12 10:14:02AM   

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Posted by BeeR

well , i have a solution, we will remove kicks all together.
And wrestling and BJJ while we're at it, because thats gay shit,
make the octagon a small square ring, with ropes, so if a fighter backs up, the ref will re position the fighters.


we'll call it.....I dont know, hows Boxing? that sounds like a good name.



leg kicks have its purpose in fights, as long as they are EFFECTIVE and not used as a tactic to run away.

Aldo vs Faber
Shogun vs Machida
Barboza vs Lullo
Jardine vs Shall
Sadollah vs Sobatta (i believe)
Cerrone vs Rocha
Jardine vs Liddell
Griffin vs Rampage
etc

notice the common theme there? EFFECTIVE leg kicks while NOT running away, moving forward to strike with punches and kicks, and still won

p$ nailed it on the head with his Kampmann/Sanchez example. I'll add Leonard Garcia to this as well.

Last edited 2/8/12 10:25AM server time by bubbles
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Post #42   2/8/12 10:20:47AM   

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Posted by gartface


Posted by pmoney
Do you remember watching that fight and saying that fighter executed a good gameplan?




Shogun vs. Machida 1. Look at the statistics for that fight. I'd say people were maybe more up in arms about Shogun losing that fight than Diaz this one. The difference though, is that Shogun did outstrike Machida, something Diaz couldn't do to Condit. Shogun was forced to solve the puzzle of Machida with a good gameplan. He did that mostly with leg kicks. Condit was forced to solve the Diaz puzzle, and he followed Greg Jackson's gameplan to do that. I just find it very impressive that he was maybe the only fighter I've seen to never give in to Diaz's taunts.

I'm with KPro though, I think this is my last post on this subject. I'm tired of talking to a brick wall.



bad comparison man. Shogun did use a lot of leg kicks but he also shot in for takedowns, threw a lot more punches than Condit did, and MOVED FORWARD to strike. Shogun's gameplan wasnt to throw leg kicks, throw useless spinning backfists, and running away from the action

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Post #43   2/8/12 10:23:56AM   

BeeR

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Posted by Bubbles



leg kicks have its purpose in fights, as long as they are EFFECTIVE and not used as a tactic to run away.
.



its lose/lose really.
people complain that leg kicks arent taken into affect while scoring
then when they are, people are up in arms.

Diaz could have checked every one of those leg kicks, even half, rendering them ineffective and won the fight based on that. Instead he chose to walk right into them GIVING Carlos the fight. Whether they hurt him or not, he CHOSE to take them, and was out pointed for doing so. People need to realize this.

you block a jab, it doesn't count, you block a hook, it doesn't count
whats the difference with kicks?
None.

you cant blame the judges, Carlos, or Jacksons game plan
Diaz should have realized this and changed his game half way through

Post #44   2/8/12 10:40:02AM   

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Posted by Bubbles


Posted by gartface


Posted by pmoney
Do you remember watching that fight and saying that fighter executed a good gameplan?




Shogun vs. Machida 1. Look at the statistics for that fight. I'd say people were maybe more up in arms about Shogun losing that fight than Diaz this one. The difference though, is that Shogun did outstrike Machida, something Diaz couldn't do to Condit. Shogun was forced to solve the puzzle of Machida with a good gameplan. He did that mostly with leg kicks. Condit was forced to solve the Diaz puzzle, and he followed Greg Jackson's gameplan to do that. I just find it very impressive that he was maybe the only fighter I've seen to never give in to Diaz's taunts.

I'm with KPro though, I think this is my last post on this subject. I'm tired of talking to a brick wall.



bad comparison man. Shogun did use a lot of leg kicks but he also shot in for takedowns, threw a lot more punches than Condit did, and MOVED FORWARD to strike. Shogun's gameplan wasnt to throw leg kicks, throw useless spinning backfists, and running away from the action



Shot in for takedowns is correct. Was unsuccessful in all four takedowns he attempted is also correct. Oh and unless FightMetric is lying, Rua landed a total of 82 strikes in their first fight, not exactly throwing a lot more punches than Condit. In fact, according to FightMetric, 59% of Rua's strikes in that fight were leg kicks - 14% more than Condit.

Last edited 2/8/12 10:55AM server time by gartface
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Post #45   2/8/12 10:42:03AM   
 
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