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Herb Dean affects the outcome of a fight

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jae_1833

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Does anyone else thinks it was messed up that because he took two points away from Alex Caceres for kicking his opponent in the groin that Alex subsequently lost the fight by split decision. Both kicks were obviously accidental and Alex has never been known as a dirty fighter. Normally one point is taken and warnings are issued, all of this was skipped and Herb immediately took two points costing Alex a fight he clearly won. I call shenanigans! I hope it gets overturned for Alex's sake......Edwin certainly didn't deserve the win.

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Post #1   2/5/12 2:42:33AM   

tcunningham

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it was almost like he knew alex had already won those 2 rounds and the only way to make it even was to take 2 points making round one a 10-9 for alex and a 8-9 for alex in round 2 winning the round and giving his opponent the 9 but still earning the 8 from the penalty. i hope that makes sense. bad call either way

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Post #2   2/5/12 2:49:13AM   

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Herb gave Alex a "strong" warning after the first one. ill agree 2 points was excessive though

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Post #3   2/5/12 2:51:01AM   

Aether

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Posted by jae_1833

Does anyone else thinks it was messed up that because he took two points away from Alex Caceres for kicking his opponent in the groin that Alex subsequently lost the fight by split decision. Both kicks were obviously accidental and Alex has never been known as a dirty fighter. Normally one point is taken and warnings are issued, all of this was skipped and Herb immediately took two points costing Alex a fight he clearly won. I call shenanigans! I hope it gets overturned for Alex's sake......Edwin certainly didn't deserve the win.



I think it's fair actually. The amount of damage those groin shots did was phenomenal. Look at the pace that Figueroa fought Michael MacDonald at and how tired he was at the end of that fight versus the pace of this fight and how he looked at the end of it. They weren't light lead leg jabs either they were rear leg power kicks that required a good 3-4 minutes of recuperation time before the guy could even stand.

Yeah, he wasn't intentionally trying to kick him, but there's a limit to how badly you can accidentally foul your opponent without being punished for it, especially when you've been given a "major warning" or whatever the exact terminology Dean used was. He made it very clear that it was a severe illegal blow and that he was going to take points if it happened again, I think the only debatable thing is 2 vs 1 point deduction, but because of how severe the blows were I feel that it was fair.

We can never know now what the fight would have looked like without the groin shots, but I definitely think that Figueroa performs far better without a couple of running soccer kicks to the nuts.

Post #4   2/5/12 2:56:05AM   

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I think the amount of damaged was over played by Fig....if it was that bad he should have been DQed...I have no recollection of a two point deduction in MMA.....its a first for me that I know of.

Post #5   2/5/12 3:12:56AM   

Aether

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well whether he's playing it up or not is subjective, I would've been fine with a 1 point deduction, but I also think 2 points is fair. Personally, I believe Figueroa was not acting, as those kicks looked really, really hard.

Post #6   2/5/12 3:44:47AM   

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Posted by jae_1833

I think the amount of damaged was over played by Fig....if it was that bad he should have been DQed...I have no recollection of a two point deduction in MMA.....its a first for me that I know of.



I can't agree with that. The first one alone should have been enough to stop the fight. He's a tough kid and didn't want it to go down that way. I was shocked that he could stand at all. Both kicks were directly to the nuts. They were obviously unintentional but they were powerful nonetheless. I wouldn't have taken away 2 points personally but it's not my job and I know nothing about it.

Last edited 2/5/12 3:49AM server time by budgellism
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Post #7   2/5/12 3:49:03AM   

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on the same note though I think that he should have taken a point from Koscheck, and that would've turned the fight into a majority decision.

Post #8   2/5/12 4:04:18AM   

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Posted by Budgellism


Posted by jae_1833

I think the amount of damaged was over played by Fig....if it was that bad he should have been DQed...I have no recollection of a two point deduction in MMA.....its a first for me that I know of.



I can't agree with that. The first one alone should have been enough to stop the fight. He's a tough kid and didn't want it to go down that way. I was shocked that he could stand at all. Both kicks were directly to the nuts. They were obviously unintentional but they were powerful nonetheless. I wouldn't have taken away 2 points personally but it's not my job and I know nothing about it.



The least the judges could have done was offer everyone associated with Project Mayhem 11 points. & maybe a bakers dozen props, maybe.

Post #9   2/5/12 4:08:05AM   

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Posted by Aether

on the same note though I think that he should have taken a point from Koscheck, and that would've turned the fight into a majority decision.




Consistency is the key.

Post #10   2/5/12 4:50:45AM   

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Posted by MMAcca


Posted by Aether

on the same note though I think that he should have taken a point from Koscheck, and that would've turned the fight into a majority decision.




Consistency is the key.



I was actually wondering if the 2 point thing in the other fight didn't maybe make him hesitant to do it again in this fight. That stuff definitely has to play in your mind whether you act on it or not as a ref, you hear the crowd boo and maybe second guess yourself the next time you're in the same spot.

Or maybe he just didn't judge the eyepoke to be very serious or impactful to the fight and therefore not deserving of a deduction. That is possible, Pierce recovered in seconds and there was actually only 1 real eyepoke despite there being a number or warnings.

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Post #11   2/5/12 4:53:13AM   

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Bobby Green was docked 2 points against Dan Lauzon at Affliction: Day of Reckoning for multiple low blows. Herb Dean went from "strong warning" to 2 points on both and both were deserving, as taking illegal shots like that makes you more likely to get finished.

Look at Bisping/Rivera. Even if Bisping had 2 points taken away, the illegal knee to the head did enough that Rivera never recovered and was finished shortly after. I was fine with the 2 point deduction, especially with some dirty fighters who are fine with losing a point in the early rounds because they know it gives them more than enough advantage to make up for the 1 point loss. It's referee discretion so he could've DQ'd Caceres due to deeming Figueroa unfit to safely continue even if Figueroa said he was ok to continue.

Caceres has said he'll be appealing it, but there's nothing to appeal so I don't know why. The refs decision stands on things like point deductions, I don't even know that he can appeal it.

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Post #12   2/5/12 8:48:21AM   

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I agree with Herb's decision. The damage those blows did swayed the fight to Alex, imo. He was strongly warned, yet he landed another hard shot. Maybe Alex should have played it safe, and stay away from the inside leg kicks.

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Post #13   2/5/12 10:49:56AM   

emfleek

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Well, the precedent has been set now. All point dockings due to groin shots from here on out should be increased to 2 points.

Cheick Kongo will never win another fight.

Herb pissed me off last night. That was some amateur referee shit IMO. The point deductions in the Caceres fight, I can live with I guess. But the constant "let's work" bullshit was tiring.

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Post #14   2/5/12 10:54:56AM   

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He also affected the Koscheck with the finger eye pokes. Could have been a draw.

Post #15   2/5/12 11:12:17AM   
 
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