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UFC 140 Results: Jon Jones Told to Check on Lyoto Machida Post-Fight to 'Get Some Fans'

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bjj1605

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Posted by npayant


Hmmm, I don't see how Jones doing the crawl thing is any more disrespectful than what your favorite fighter Silva does (especially in the Maia fight)...taunting other fighters who can't even come close to hitting him. I guess he's not a mixed martial artist either because he doesn't display the appropriate values. Please.... Why even focus on something as irrelevant as that?

I guess I don't pay attention to little things like that, which is why I don't think your favorite fighter is a bad guy, just like I don't think Jones is either.

Not a mixed martial artist??? That's laughable.



First of all, I said not a martial artist. Not "not a mixed martial artist." The distinction I'm making is between martial artists and fighters (I believe Jones is a fighter.) But even then, there are plenty of "fighters" that I like. Dan Henderson, Randy Couture, Cain Velasquez, Chuck Lidell, Bartimus...the list could go on and on. But these fighters at least have sportsmanship.

With what you've said about Sivla, you've got a point. Anderson can be really really cocky. But there are subtle differences and those matter to me. First of all, much of what Anderson does is part of his fighting style. Its not uncommon in martial arts, even traditional ones, to use deception. So his dancing, putting his hands down, sticking his chin out....it all serves a purpose. To draw the guy in and counter. It helps him win the fight. What Jones is doing is just goofy nonsense. There is no rationale behind it.

I also respect Anderson because he's REAL. Again, its not something I can explain really well. Jones just comes across as fake and a lot of his actions contradict each other. I believe that when Anderson is being cocky, its real. I also believe that when he's humble, its real. He says he doesn't think he's the best fighter in the world. He used to say Paulo Filho was better than him. I don't think thats just PR coaching BS. I think he says whats on his mind. He also bows to his opponents and checks on them after knocking them out (without being told to.)

With Jones, its like he's secretly really cocky but has this carefully managed image where he tries to come across as humble. I respect authenticity.

The sad thing is I really liked him as he was climbing the ladder. I thought he came across as down to earth and humble. Then he got a little bit of fame and showed his true colors. It just adds to my dislike because it makes me feel deceived.

I'm not going to try to convince you. This is one of those subjects where it really is pure opinion. I just don't like the guy. He rubs me the wrong way. Do we really have to say more than that?


Posted by grappler0000

Once people form an opinion, they have a hard time changing there minds. The problem is that people make assumptions many times and form an uneducated opinion.



Like I mentioned above, I used to really really like Jones. I thought he was gonna be my LHW version of Anderson. I still really like his fighting style. But his personality turns me off. So I formed and opinion and now I changed it. I used to really like him, now I don't.

Post #31   12/12/11 1:51:41PM   

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Posted by Patchedup15

sidenote: to all the Bones haters, i'm not being antagonistic, but is it possible you hate him BECAUSE he's so good. I understand personality plays a part, but many fighters are very cocky. The difference is that Jones really is as good as his hype suggests. Try to be open minded and evaluate his fighting.



You know, everyone seems to be saying the same thing back.

"He's a good fighter" or "he didn't break any rules."

Thats not the point. Really. Really. Really. Can't stress it enough.

No one doubts that he's an amazing fighter. No one doubts that he acted with in the rules.

He just didn't act with respect, decency, or honor.

Maybe with age and experience he'll mature and I can like him more. It happened with Tito to a degree. I used to really dislike him and now he's warmed me up a bit. Although, naming himself "the people's champ" lost some fan points with me.

Post #32   12/12/11 1:54:11PM   

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Posted by KungFuMaster

This kid is tying to pretend he is humble. I take offense to that...I would much rather he be himself and I would respect him more for it. Take Sonnen for instance... He is the biggest arrogant SOB in the world of MMA but he receives more love from fans IMO because there is something genuine about his presentations. I'm not implying everything Sonnen says is true. What I am saying is Sonnen does not hide his feelings. He is rude, obnoxious, and very condescending but what he is doing has more integrity than what Jones has displayed.




I'm not going to get too into this, but I have to point out this little snippet. You don't like Jones because he's "fake", for lack of a better word, but you are crediting Sonnen here for being "real". You do realize that Sonnen's arrogant personality is all BS right? It's made up to help sell himself, and his fights and doesn't reflect on how he really is as a person at all.

Note to self: Don't discuss Santa with KFM, just let him have that one.

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Post #33   12/12/11 3:00:21PM   

ncordless

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Posted by KungFuMaster


Posted by ncordless



Are you serious? You are accusing me of lying!? What a jerk thing to say. Do not ever do that again.

I do maintain that there was nothing wrong with his sportsmanship. He choked Machida, Machida did not tap, ref told him to let go, he did. He played it exactly by the book. And not some bs bushido code of ethics book where you make sure the fighter falls pretty, but instead the code of rules that are designed for fighter safety and fairness. There are reasons for why the rules are the way they are. As grappler said, the refs want people to let go and get out of the way immediately upon their stoppage. You don't let the choke go when someone goes limp. If that was the rule, everyone would go limp every time they were in a choke. That is the oldest trick in the book for getting out of a sub. And when you do let go you and get away so the medics can come in. You don't hold on to him in any fashion, and if you are holding on in any fashion it is the job of the ref to tackle you and get you to let go. Holding on to Machida after the ref told him to let go would have been the wrong thing to do.

You act like Machida almost died. I repeat that if you can't handle someone getting choked unconscious and falling to the floor, you should stop watching mma, or at least learn about the relative risks of techniques. That the choke was applied for longer for a couple seconds than it took for him to lose consciousness is a very low risk in the scheme of things. When people get choked and do not tap, they go unconscious. If they do it standing up, they are going to fall to the ground, just like when they get KOed.

I could care less who you like or hate. Hating fighters is kind of stupid in my book, and hating them for what they do outside the cage, especially when it doesn't involve people getting hurt, cheating, or breaking the law like so many other fighters' who make the news for all the wrong reasons, smells of wwe and soap operas, but to each their own. I understand that there a lot of people whose favorite fighter got demolished by Jones. I also understand that some people have different ideas on how they think other people should behave, and the appropriate level of personal contempt they have when people don't behave the way they think they should But you specifically said that you felt that the way Jones let go of Machida was a dirty move.

Which brings me to you accusing me of lying now or then. First, it's a false premise to assume that Machida almost died. Your sense of smell sucks, because there was no death in the air. Second, just because you don't understand my ethics doesn't mean that they are contradictary. Your logic on my "lie" is a little vague. But from what I understand, you are saying that because I don't have a problem with Machida not tapping, passing out, Jones holding the sub for another couple seconds until the fight was over, and then letting him go instead trying to let him down softly; and also abide by a personal creed of an affirmative duty to help others, up to and including risking my own life to save another's (even one that calls me a liar), that I am lying? Explain to me why I am being dishonest. Explain to me why my personal code of ethics that we discussed a month ago, a code which I don't hold anyone else to but neither begrudge them if they choose to abide by, conflicts with my lack of contempt for the actions of someone who did exactly what he was supposed to under the rules that they were competing in such a way that makes me a liar. Either that or explain to me how your code of ethics allows for the baseless accusations of dishonesty to be lobbed around at people who disagree with you.


. . . And if you want this conversation to continue, do it via pm. No reason to subject the rest of the members to the ramblings that are sure to issue forth from what this continued is going to look like.



Really? A jerk thing to say? Hmmm?...Let me see here.

What were you thinking when you insinuated I get squeamish after seeing a fighter go limp? You just had to put that in there did you not? - And yes, I took offense to that because there was no need for you to say it unless you wanted a confrontation? Well, you got your confrontation - don't get squeamish on me now.

Had you came out and voiced your opinion in a professional manner, this conversation would have been done and over with...But no, you figure you would use this topic to redeem yourself from our last encounter.

Anyway, regarding Jones, I have no clue as to what you are debating here. You don't seem to understand no one here has said anything about Jones violating any MMA protocols.

My standard for people whom I like and will like is set high. I am sorry we do not have the same standards. Don't impose your standards on me. Again, you insinuated I am imposing my bushido code of ethics upon others. No one here is doing that.... Jon Jones simply does not meet my standard which is why he is not a favorite fighter of mine. Is that too difficult to understand?

I don't know how old you are and I really don't care but at my age, I cannot like a fighter without not liking the person behind the fighter. It's great you don't hate fighters but I seriously doubt you mean it. It is probably one of those things that are cool to say and that is why people say it. - Just like how you said you would risk your life to save mine regardless if we were friends or not. Again - it is one of those cliche things to say. - Because I can tell you first hand, the energy you will exert when saving your child and when saving me will vary tremendously. So don't come onto me like you are this saint because your posts certainly do not reflect it.

I have seen you preemptively attack members for their opinions just like you preemptively attacked me. Unlike other members, I will stand my ground. You have been rude and so have I - but in my defense, I can say I was provoked. You can't say that can you?

My opening post in this thread did not address anyone or any member. It was simply my observation and constructive criticism of Jones.

The next time you want to quote me and attack me, do understand I will not be squeamish.





Stop. You are embarassing yourself.

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Post #34   12/12/11 4:30:15PM   

the_01

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Damn, just when I was starting to be a fan. I guess now he lost a fan.

Post #35   12/12/11 4:36:32PM   

KungFuMaster

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Posted by cowcatcher


Posted by KungFuMaster

This kid is tying to pretend he is humble. I take offense to that...I would much rather he be himself and I would respect him more for it. Take Sonnen for instance... He is the biggest arrogant SOB in the world of MMA but he receives more love from fans IMO because there is something genuine about his presentations. I'm not implying everything Sonnen says is true. What I am saying is Sonnen does not hide his feelings. He is rude, obnoxious, and very condescending but what he is doing has more integrity than what Jones has displayed.




I'm not going to get too into this, but I have to point out this little snippet. You don't like Jones because he's "fake", for lack of a better word, but you are crediting Sonnen here for being "real". You do realize that Sonnen's arrogant personality is all BS right? It's made up to help sell himself, and his fights and doesn't reflect on how he really is as a person at all.

Note to self: Don't discuss Santa with KFM, just let him have that one.



I am done with the Jones issue - at least for now. I have to save my energy and fighting spirit for when Jones fights again.

You sure you don't want to discuss Santa with me, Cowcatcher?

You see - back in the days, people were plagued with famine, harsh weather, and on top of that - they were ruled by greedy kings. People needed a hero ........and that is how Santa came to be. He represents hope and good will.

But anyway, I am glad you came into this thread, Cowcatcher. We definitely needed a laugh. I apologize for my display of unbecoming a playground member. I wish I can turn back the hands of time and take back the mean things I have said to Ncordless but I can't. It's has been said and done - and gone. I apologize for not being the member I wish to be and expected to be.

Cowcatcher, you showed me you have a big heart when we had our little scuffle.>>>And in the spirit of the holidays, I will show mine.

I don't wish to continue this route with you, Ncordless. I apologize if I have offended you. You don't need to respond. You don't need to say anything which may make it awkward. We may not interact for the next few weeks or months but someday, I hope we do - and do it for the better.

Post #36   12/12/11 6:27:57PM   

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I have a clip which may explain what happened here. It's from one of the best movies I've ever seen.

Enjoy!

Last edited 12/12/11 6:54PM server time by KungFuMaster
Edit note/reason: n/a

Post #37   12/12/11 6:53:27PM   

grappler0000

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Speaking of going limp, did you guys know that Chandela has already done Playboy?

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Post #38   12/12/11 7:49:15PM   

bjj1605

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Posted by grappler0000

Speaking of going limp, did you guys know that Chandela has already done Playboy?



Looked it up. Only found one picture. Not so good

Post #39   12/12/11 10:49:05PM   

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I loved the fact that Machida fell on his face after Jones let go of him. It made the fight that much better.

Post #40   12/13/11 6:09:57PM   
 
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