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How is Gilbert Melendez #2??

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warglory

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Posted by Pookie

Roger Huerta by SD, Nate Diaz by SD. Jim Miller by UD.

All those are on a Kawajiri calibre level. And Melendez dominated him.

Aoki is a top level fighter at 155. And Melendez dominated him.

Maynard beat Edgar, but Edgar wasnt the same calibre fighter then as he is now. So i don't view it as beating the same edgar of today, who IMO won 7 of the 9 rounds he fought against maynard ever since.

I think Maynard is overrated, and that Melendez and Alvarez would both handily beat him in a fight. I don't see his wins as any more impressive than Melendez's.



Miller and Huerta would both beat Kawajiri. Kawajiri, much like Cavalcante, Shinya Aoki, Josh Thompson and Joachim Hansen, are not at the UFC caliber. Can they tread water? Yes, all of them could, but very few would be competitive. UFC has proven to be a different beast all together than every other organization.

Let's take Aoki for example. He has great jits, but you put him up against a great wrestler and he's nullified because he never has to test himself against great wrestlers in Japan. And let's not even discuss his lack of striking ability, which is essentially null and void.

Gray has fought every one of his fights in the UFC with the exception of his first two, I think it's safe to say that Maynard has fought superior competition.

Despite my post though, I actually do think Melendez would do fairly well in the UFC, but I'm not convinced he could challenge for a title.

Last edited 10/25/11 9:20PM server time by warglory
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Post #16   10/25/11 9:17:10PM   

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Posted by warglory


Posted by Pookie

Roger Huerta by SD, Nate Diaz by SD. Jim Miller by UD.

All those are on a Kawajiri calibre level. And Melendez dominated him.

Aoki is a top level fighter at 155. And Melendez dominated him.

Maynard beat Edgar, but Edgar wasnt the same calibre fighter then as he is now. So i don't view it as beating the same edgar of today, who IMO won 7 of the 9 rounds he fought against maynard ever since.

I think Maynard is overrated, and that Melendez and Alvarez would both handily beat him in a fight. I don't see his wins as any more impressive than Melendez's.



Miller and Huerta would both beat Kawajiri. Kawajiri, much like Cavalcante, Shinya Aoki, Josh Thompson and Joachim Hansen, are not at the UFC caliber. Can they tread water? Yes, all of them could, but very few would be competitive. UFC has proven to be a different beast all together than every other organization.

Let's take Aoki for example. He has great jits, but you put him up against a great wrestler and he's nullified because he never has to test himself against great wrestlers in Japan. And let's not even discuss his lack of striking ability, which is essentially null and void.

Gray has fought every one of his fights in the UFC with the exception of his first two, I think it's safe to say that Maynard has fought superior competition.

Despite my post though, I actually do think Melendez would do fairly well in the UFC, but I'm not convinced he could challenge for a title.



Huerta would not beat Kawajiri. Miller, feasibly. But i still wouldn't bet on it. Miller and Huerta beat less than stellar competition to gain their reputations, less than Kawajiri's for sure. And thats the exact same argument thats being used against Melendez. That he hasnt fought the tough guys. But really, niether have most of the ufc fighters if you really look at it and break it down.

And Aoki has great grappling from the clinch, it's Melendez's use of wrestling and BJJ that make him such a tough match-up for Aoki. Aoki's takedown/transition game is underrated. He's beat many people who he wasnt supposed to be able to takedown.

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Post #17   10/26/11 12:34:04AM   

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Posted by Pookie

Roger Huerta by SD, Nate Diaz by SD. Jim Miller by UD.

All those are on a Kawajiri calibre level. And Melendez dominated him.

Aoki is a top level fighter at 155. And Melendez dominated him.

Maynard beat Edgar, but Edgar wasnt the same calibre fighter then as he is now. So i don't view it as beating the same edgar of today, who IMO won 7 of the 9 rounds he fought against maynard ever since.

I think Maynard is overrated, and that Melendez and Alvarez would both handily beat him in a fight. I don't see his wins as any more impressive than Melendez's.



Kawajiri would get murdered by Jim Miller.

Post #18   10/26/11 12:40:56AM   

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Posted by Pookie

Roger Huerta by SD, Nate Diaz by SD. Jim Miller by UD.

All those are on a Kawajiri calibre level. And Melendez dominated him.

Aoki is a top level fighter at 155. And Melendez dominated him.

Maynard beat Edgar, but Edgar wasnt the same calibre fighter then as he is now. So i don't view it as beating the same edgar of today, who IMO won 7 of the 9 rounds he fought against maynard ever since.

I think Maynard is overrated, and that Melendez and Alvarez would both handily beat him in a fight. I don't see his wins as any more impressive than Melendez's.




I'm kind of confused on your position Pookie, you say that you think Maynard is overrated but say that there is no difference in competition between Melendez and Gray.

So am I assuming that you don't think Melendez is #2? If Gray isn't and they have comparable competition surely you can't rank Melendez as the second best LW in the world. Unless by saying that you don't hold Grays win over Frankie in high regard and are using Gilbert's win over Aoki as the tie breaker.

Anyway, I don't disagree with anything you said, you just never stated if you agree with Melendez's ranking. Am I making any sense or do I need to sleep more?


Post #19   10/26/11 2:07:48AM   

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Posted by warglory

I think the question everyone should be asking themselves is...where does the "other" Gilbert rank?






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Post #20   10/26/11 3:02:22AM   

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Posted by Adrenaline


Posted by Pookie

Roger Huerta by SD, Nate Diaz by SD. Jim Miller by UD.

All those are on a Kawajiri calibre level. And Melendez dominated him.

Aoki is a top level fighter at 155. And Melendez dominated him.

Maynard beat Edgar, but Edgar wasnt the same calibre fighter then as he is now. So i don't view it as beating the same edgar of today, who IMO won 7 of the 9 rounds he fought against maynard ever since.

I think Maynard is overrated, and that Melendez and Alvarez would both handily beat him in a fight. I don't see his wins as any more impressive than Melendez's.




I'm kind of confused on your position Pookie, you say that you think Maynard is overrated but say that there is no difference in competition between Melendez and Gray.

So am I assuming that you don't think Melendez is #2? If Gray isn't and they have comparable competition surely you can't rank Melendez as the second best LW in the world. Unless by saying that you don't hold Grays win over Frankie in high regard and are using Gilbert's win over Aoki as the tie breaker.

Anyway, I don't disagree with anything you said, you just never stated if you agree with Melendez's ranking. Am I making any sense or do I need to sleep more?





I think Melendez is worthy of #2, but i can agree with anything in the top 5. I don't think Gray is #2 at all, but i think he should be top 5.

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Post #21   10/26/11 5:41:53AM   

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Posted by warglory

I think the question everyone should be asking themselves is...where does the "other" Gilbert rank?






This Gilbert's ranking

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Post #22   10/26/11 10:42:24AM   

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Posted by Budgellism


Posted by Pookie

The quality of their competition is no different. Examine both Melendez and Maynard's record.



I don't know about that.



Me neither...Just crazy talk...BJ Penn most likely beats Melendez...Prolly pretty easy too...

I think Diego Sanchez would beat Melendez at LW..

Post #23   10/26/11 12:47:34PM   

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I am blown away how much credit Alvarez got from you Pookie...I dont think he will beat Chandler....His cocky attitude will get him beat soon...

Post #24   10/26/11 12:50:18PM   

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Posted by kingsmasher


Posted by Budgellism


Posted by Pookie

The quality of their competition is no different. Examine both Melendez and Maynard's record.



I don't know about that.



Me neither...Just crazy talk...BJ Penn most likely beats Melendez...Prolly pretty easy too...

I think Diego Sanchez would beat Melendez at LW..



Penn would probably destroy Melendez Stylistically, but i really don't see Diego standing a chance.

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Post #25   10/26/11 12:53:02PM   

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Posted by Pookie


Posted by kingsmasher


Posted by Budgellism


Posted by Pookie

The quality of their competition is no different. Examine both Melendez and Maynard's record.



I don't know about that.



Me neither...Just crazy talk...BJ Penn most likely beats Melendez...Prolly pretty easy too...

I think Diego Sanchez would beat Melendez at LW..



Penn would probably destroy Melendez Stylistically, but i really don't see Diego standing a chance.



I would give Edgar a way better odds to beat Melendez...Just because his TDD...and has good boxing...If melendez is half teh wrestler he claims and some claim he should be able to take BJ down at will...

Post #26   10/26/11 2:39:09PM   

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No one in the world can take Bj Penn down at will. Randy Couture couldnt, GSP couldnt, Hughes couldnt, & Edgar couldnt.

Last edited 10/27/11 10:49AM server time by pookie
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Post #27   10/27/11 10:48:58AM   

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Posted by tcunningham

im with you on this subject. i think the UFC truely has the creme of the crop in fighters and never have i seen a champ come from another organization be what people expexted, anderson silva came from pride, but at that time pride was the top notch fighter as well as the UFC. perfect example is pettis, hes good but not UFC champion material. maybe down the road but not now. as for melendez, he'll come to the ufc and find out that the division is deep and he cant swim that well



Really? you dont think Jose Aldo and Dominick Cruz are as expected, Anderson Silva also came via Cage Rage( a UK organization) as their Champion. His last fight in Pride was a submission loss to Ryo Chonan in 2004 and he was never a champ in the Pride show. Yes the UFC have the top fighters but they have to start somewhere, although I do agree Melendez is not top two yet, more like top 10. I would like to see him matched against a solid top 10 fighter like Miller or Guillard

Last edited 10/28/11 10:42AM server time by tattflash
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Post #28   10/28/11 10:37:11AM   

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I think if anyone is arguably ahead of Melendez in the lightweight rankings it would have to be Eddie Alvarez before Gray Maynard, but even that'd be tough to call.

I think both Melendez and Alvarez have put together better wins than Maynard has. It's not all about who they're beating but how they're doing it as well that matters.

Rankings are pointless anyways.

Post #29   10/29/11 11:39:27AM   

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I stopped reading after seeing how much people discredit fighters like Kawajiri. There's no sense arguing for Melendez with how some people view the top fighters in JMMA. I'd take Crusher over a guy like Huerta or Pettis without hesitation.

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Post #30   10/29/11 12:08:30PM   
 
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