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Rampage irritated with everyone trying to wrestle him. Wants someone who will "come to fight"

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Rampage beat the **** out of Jardine and Hammill. Kimbo's chin/recovery is far worse than either of them.

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Post #46   7/24/11 6:41:20PM   

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Posted by Pookie


Posted by kingsmasher

All based on MMA math...because nobody believes in it "MMA math" except thats how odds are made in betting..and Vegas always wins...



That is NOT how vegas attributes betting lines. How can you be so certain in area's where you are so clearly wrong?



And the reason the line is so crazy on Jon Jones and Rampage is because Rua beats Rampage easily and Jones beat Rua easily....In all honesty I love Jon Jones but in no way does a line warrant a minus -500...thats plain MMA math...Cause look they really have nothing to base that line on but that....Lets see Jones beat Bader before that...but Bader just lost to Tito...So all you really have to base Jones on is his domination over Rua...classic case of math...Ask Rampage and he will say Jones beat a washed up two surgery Rua...who cares it was domination...thats why the long odds...but anyway the better bet is Rampage for +350....there should never be such crazy odds in MMA in my opinion when afighter does have the punching power...

Post #47   7/24/11 6:41:24PM   

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Posted by Pookie

I think you just changed your definition of MMA math from A > B > C = A > C (Which is for lack of a better word, Asinine), into MMA algorithm. Which, ****** maybe might have merit, but is far different than the MMA math you proposed in the prior post.

But yeah, Rashad is a favorite over Tito because he's performed at a higher level, had negative variables counting against him in his first performance against tito(injured pre-fight), and because its easy to infer the limitations and strong points of their styles, so meshing the two against each other is quite easy.

Betting lines have more to do with the abstraction of variables and skill then it does Algorithm. If it was more-Algorithm based than abstraction based, Fedor wouldn't be a 2-1 favorite over Hendo.

It would be far easier to win money betting on MMA by assessing the algorithm in question, and betting on the fighters who have had their algorithm value diminished farther than their skill, than the current system. Because the current system is Subjectively based, you have to way your hunches against an expert, and thats why vegas always wins in the long run.




I agree to disagree the reason Fedor isnt 2 to 1 over Hendo is because he was way overrated..and do not think when setting lines I know they need money bet on both sides..IF you subtracted the two losses of Fedor from his record he would have been -500 easily...I know what I ahve said in the past and I do make mistakes as for not being clear and everyone interpreting stuff.. I do that in text too...I do not bet A B C math I look at style matchups period and look for soft lines...I have rarely lost real money in MMA....But however I have lost some big paydays too...like when Carwin crushed Gonzaga and Edgar beat Sherk...

But in MMA most is based on algotithms of a last fighters four to five fights...That is why rashad is such a huge favorite....but in actual reality this fight is way closer and would not be surprised if Tito won...

If you think guys are sitting around debating lines for any sport cause they think style wise man you are way wrong...its all about numbers...and knowing how the public will bet...hers the formula....most is by public perception, then algorithms and then abc...public perception thouhg is based mostly on professional bettors by algorithms...Im talking real money bettors in sports not your average 50 dollar bettor...

Post #48   7/24/11 6:56:09PM   

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Posted by Pookie

Rampage beat the **** out of Jardine and Hammill. Kimbo's chin/recovery is far worse than either of them.




This is presumptious...based on what did you measure the angles of each punch...Jardine has a great chin...Hamill We do not know but I would say maybe him being deaf might help in his equilibrium not being affected as much...SO i presume too...

and to say Rampge beat the hell outta Jardine...I simply disagree and though that fight he could have lost if not for the last minute knock down....

Post #49   7/24/11 6:59:39PM   

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I agree that the line is "off"

But to say they come to -500 purely because Jones dominated Rua and Rua dominated Page is silly. It's because of the variables Jones represents. No one has stopped his takedowns yet, his reach hasn't been waded through successfully, he improves every fight, and people haven't seen him struggle. While Rampage is also at the end of his prime years.

Variables > Who beats who.

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Post #50   7/24/11 7:01:46PM   

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Posted by kingsmasher


Posted by Pookie

Rampage beat the **** out of Jardine and Hammill. Kimbo's chin/recovery is far worse than either of them.




This is presumptious...based on what did you measure the angles of each punch...Jardine has a great chin...Hamill We do not know but I would say maybe him being deaf might help in his equilibrium not being affected as much...SO i presume too...

and to say Rampge beat the hell outta Jardine...I simply disagree and though that fight he could have lost if not for the last minute knock down....



Well then you clearly didn't pay attention during that fight. Rampage won 2 rounds unquestionably. Regardless of the knockdown at the end of the third. Jardine did very little in that fight.

You used presumptuous wrong(and spelled it wrong too). Kimbo was dropped by a jab from petruzelli, while he was on one foot. That speaks Volumes if you understand the economy of motion & energy that goes into a punch.

Ironically, it's actually you was was presumptuous in assuming the betting lines are based on purely algorithm as there is no hard evidence to support that claim. My claim on "Chins" can actually be measured and verified. Therefore it can't be "presumptuous".

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Post #51   7/24/11 7:08:39PM   

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Posted by Pookie

I agree that the line is "off"

But to say they come to -500 purely because Jones dominated Rua and Rua dominated Page is silly. It's because of the variables Jones represents. No one has stopped his takedowns yet, his reach hasn't been waded through successfully, he improves every fight, and people haven't seen him struggle. While Rampage is also at the end of his prime years.

Variables > Who beats who.



The line is what it is becuase of public perception...IN vegas a perfect world is to get bets on both side that even out and they take the 9 % cut...And I am a Jon Jones huge fan but if you look at who he has fought yeahI agree hes dominated but really I think the line is so large cause theyre expecting him to take Rampage down and factoring in the style matchup here but if you do look closely theres really nothing to warrant such a huge line..

Jones has been dominate against alot of guys but really the domination of Rua is why the line is so long...We can speculate back and forth...I agree with variables over who beats who but I am saying the odds makers dont do it that way for 90 percent of fights...

Post #52   7/24/11 7:33:42PM   

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I think they do it that way for every fight. As it would be far better for them monetarily to do so. And with the way the world works, the oddsmakers who adapt the method(for every fight) win more money in the long run. Upon seeing another business more successful than your own, it's human nature to adapt. Over time, it makes more sense that odds makers would do it for more of the fights than less of the fights.

Most lines get action on only one side, not both.

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Post #53   7/24/11 7:47:31PM   

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Posted by Pookie


Posted by kingsmasher


Posted by Pookie

Rampage beat the **** out of Jardine and Hammill. Kimbo's chin/recovery is far worse than either of them.




This is presumptious...based on what did you measure the angles of each punch...Jardine has a great chin...Hamill We do not know but I would say maybe him being deaf might help in his equilibrium not being affected as much...SO i presume too...

and to say Rampge beat the hell outta Jardine...I simply disagree and though that fight he could have lost if not for the last minute knock down....



Well then you clearly didn't pay attention during that fight. Rampage won 2 rounds unquestionably. Regardless of the knockdown at the end of the third. Jardine did very little in that fight.

You used presumptuous wrong(and spelled it wrong too). Kimbo was dropped by a jab from petruzelli, while he was on one foot. That speaks Volumes if you understand the economy of motion & energy that goes into a punch.

Ironically, it's actually you was was presumptuous in assuming the betting lines are based on purely algorithm as there is no hard evidence to support that claim. My claim on "Chins" can actually be measured and verified. Therefore it can't be "presumptuous".



Was Kimbos mouth open during a shot cause I have seen his backyard brawls and he let a guy punch him...it all determines a ton of things as far as respect to chin...Mostly on the receiving end...Not on the punching side...and thatnks for the spell check..weird how it underlines it in red..i chose to ignore it...

But tell me how can a chin be measured and verified...Isnt one more suspect to a KO if the chin is open rather than biting down on the mouthpiece...Placement of a punch is everything too..Balance from the guy being punched he could ever so slighty be turning into a punch or moving his head forward...

IMO I think somethings I know are just argumentative...Like ones chin..theres just too many factors to base a weak chin to someone else...some can take punches better to the naked eye but thats all that is..theres just too many factors..most being how many muscles are in the jaw leading to the temple...

but I do think its funny that chins can be measured and verified...but whats ridiculous is to think really they can be compared on who can take a shot more from a given fighter at a given time...Find a test where two pple let one individual hit them in the chin....Its just like testing care crashes..All teh variables may look exactly the same but they are off ever so slightly but still off...

Post #54   7/24/11 7:47:33PM   

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Ok i see what you're saying.

In regards to chin though, i think the ability to take punches from specific angles can be seen in the person's physical attributes. In theory, heavy blows are damaging because they tip the jaw and shake the brain. The shape of the chin/jaw and the size of the neck muscles are the things that stop the chin from tipping, and thus stop the scrambling of the brain.

And because there are general principles that are constant in what composes a Chin. I think Observed data is very fruitful is verifying conclusions made about chin's. For me, the observed data on Kimbo's ability to take a punch against the toughest in the world have been underwhelming, whereas Hammill and (to a lesser extent) Jardine have shown competent in that area.

Since the premise in question was Rampage's lack of ability to finish Jardine and Hammill, and the conclusion was doubting his ability to drop kimbo. I brought up my point as an attempt to bring (my interpretation) of accuracy to the board. And IMO, Jardine and Hammill can take a punch/avoid a punch/recover from a punch better than Kimbo.

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Post #55   7/24/11 8:02:47PM   

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Posted by kingsmasher


Posted by Chael_Sonnen


Posted by kingsmasher

Of all the comments out there its all sepculation and untruths...First I SAID IF RAMPAGE WANTS A STAND UP SHOULDA FOUGHT KIMBO.....THen I read about technique....lmao...what is Rampages technique? he has none he relies on power and his chin...He hardly moves...but he is the strongest in the division...

I said if he wanted a standup fight and nothing else Kimbo is the only guy out there that would oblige...

Actually the kimbo you see in a cage is way way diffenet than Kimbo in a st fight...In his st fights knees and kicking arent allowed strictly stand up...Witht hat said I would take Kimbo over Rampage because his technique and movement in his street fights is way better than Rampage I have seen technique wise...

I think everyone here buys in to Rampages big mouth...He sells it and is entertaining but in all honesty...He beat nobody...He mighta barely beat Forrest but he didnt hit Machida one time...Anyone with movement beats Rampage...If he had such great technique and precision hed have more KOs..

Oh I forgot his last KO was against who? the same guy who Chris Leben knocked out....lmao and before that...Chuck Lidell Who Franklin KO....

I tell you who would beat the crap outta Rampage in teh style he wants...Bring on Mousasi...and I think he sux cuss he cant wrestle...but he would work Rampage over...



Have you seen the bums Kimbo has fought in the streets




Once again not paying attention I said yeah I commented on his technique and movement..>Something I have never see rampage do...So if he wanted a stand up fight....I think Kimbo would win...Everyone can disagree its just my opinion and everyone else here is just buying what? Have you seen the st fight where Kimbo let a guy punch him in the face....Just let him hit him...GUy wasnt Rampage..>All I am saying is wheres Rampages so called great standup everyone seems to think he has...I dont see it and if no threat of a leg kick or takedown...it would have been entertaining..

I just think Kimbo had better technique than Rampage, equally strong but I will say hes a tad slower now cause hes 5 yrs older...This all started in just Page wating a standup..IM sure the fight was brought up but theyre buddies....SO it wasnt gonna happen but Kimbo is bigger...And if Rampage were to add some weight I said at a catchweight...It would be a lot closer...



Rampage has a ton of technique, it's the discipline he's missing. He bobs and weaves, has good timing, and throws short punches. I've seen him brawl seldomly

Post #56   7/25/11 11:29:34AM   
 
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