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To say that June 26 did not go as planned for a number of world-ranked fighters would be a massive understatement.

That day, at Pittsburgh's Consol Energy Center, former UFC middleweight contender Nate Marquardt did not make his expected welterweight debut against Rick Story at UFC Live 4. Instead, Marquardt found himself ejected from the UFC due to elevated levels of testosterone, and Charlie Brenneman stepped into the opportunity of a lifetime. As foretold by the tattoo on his lower back, Brenneman seized the day and stopped the six-fight winning streak of Story in a unanimous decision, propelling "The Spaniard" into this edition of Sherdog.com's welterweight rankings.


....I'm interested to see what you guys think about these rankings. I'll give my two cents later, but I think they're actually really good for Sherdog rankings.

Post #1   7/6/11 10:11:17AM   

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I think the HW rankings are damn near perfect.

At LHW I think Anderson Silva or Thiago Silva deserve to be in there above Feijao.

At MW I don't think Santiago belongs in there. Especially not when they don't include Vitor. It is hard to rank Vitor because of his lack of activity in the weight class, but you have to have him in there because that weight is his home now.

At WW I think both Diaz and BJ need to be higher up. Brenneman (while I think he deserves to be in there) should in no way be higher than #10. He only has one win deserving of mention in the top ten discussion. He is currently ranked HIGHER THAN BJ!!!

LW is good but Aoki shouldn't be higher than 9 or 10 because the opponents he's facing are weak. He's a big fish in a small pond and none of his wins lately do anything to convince me he could compete with the top UFC LWs.

At FW Hominick and Pitbull Freire should be in there above Tyson Griffin or Manny.

At BW I think Uriah is unjustifiably high. He should be down around 8 or 9. He's done nothing at that weight and hasn't done very well in any weight class lately. I also think that "Barao" should be in there over Mizugaki who has fallen out of the top 10 IMO.

Post #2   7/6/11 10:39:24AM   

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Posted by bjj1605

At WW I think both Diaz and BJ need to be higher up. Brenneman (while I think he deserves to be in there) should in no way be higher than #10. He only has one win deserving of mention in the top ten discussion. He is currently ranked HIGHER THAN BJ!!!




That one win is exactly one more than BJ has to warrant him being in title contention.

Who has BJ beaten at 170 to justify him being in the top 10? Other than an over the hill Matt Hughes his last win at 170 was against Duane Ludwig almost 8 years ago.

Post #3   7/6/11 11:16:43AM   

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Posted by FlashyG


Posted by bjj1605

At WW I think both Diaz and BJ need to be higher up. Brenneman (while I think he deserves to be in there) should in no way be higher than #10. He only has one win deserving of mention in the top ten discussion. He is currently ranked HIGHER THAN BJ!!!




That one win is exactly one more than BJ has to warrant him being in title contention.

Who has BJ beaten at 170 to justify him being in the top 10? Other than an over the hill Matt Hughes his last win at 170 was against Duane Ludwig almost 8 years ago.



You've got a valid point.

However, in my opinion, there are certain fighters who transcend the traditional ranking system. This is true of fighters who have been around (at the top) for a long time and for fighters who are in the P4P discussion. BJ was or is both.

The same goes for Anderson Silva. Even though he hasn't fought a lot at LHW, I think his accomplishments at MW combined with the domination he showed over Forrest warrant a decent top ten ranking at LHW.

Post #4   7/6/11 11:22:11AM   

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I agree completely with Silva, he made a top 10 LHW look like an Amateur.

I'd concede the point on BJ too if Matt Hughes was still in the top 10 or anywhere near it, or had he won the fight against Fitch.

I'd have BJ right on the edge of the rankings maybe 11 or 12 but not in them.

Overall though their rankings were much better than I expected them to be given the source.

Post #5   7/6/11 11:27:13AM   

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HW - I think Carwin and Mir should be flopped, even tho Mir lost to Carwin. Carwin has lost two straight and Mir is on a win streak of 2.
LHW - Lil nog should not be in there. He has lost two fights. Hendo should move up a few. Rashad should be number 2 and shogun 3.
MW - As much as i hate to say it, Stann and Bisping should be switched.
WW - Fitch should be behind Shields and Diaz. BJ should be above Story and Brenneman. Alves should maybe not be on the list, Ellenberger should be on there, Condit should be ahead of Kos.
LW - Guillard should be way up. Aoki should be back and Siver should be on the list.
FW - Is decent, Mendes should be 2, Florian 3. I dont think Griffin deserves to be on there yet. Koch and Hominick should be on the list.
BW - Bowles and Mighty Mouse should be ahead of Faber.

Last edited 7/6/11 11:54AM server time by Theoutlaw08
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Post #6   7/6/11 11:51:11AM   

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Sherdog rankings i usually find are as close to a joke as can be. this one though is one of the better ones i have seen from them, though still questionable.

HW: Brock at #5? he did fight twice in the past 12 months but he looked terrible in both. both times he got his ass handed to him...but vs Carwin, he got a gift as the ref let the fight go on after turtling for 4 straight minutes. #7 i would stick him. i would put Schaub at #10 as he has done way more recently than Barnett has (though Barnett is the superior fighter). i would drop Russow and put Mitrione or Kongo on the bubble

LHW: i actually really like this list

MW: ill agree with the top 7, though i think Marquardt should be dropped a couple spots (if he is serious about staying at WW then take him off completely). i would also take Santiago off the list, move Bisping to #8, Stann to #9 and put Lombard at #10. also Leben should be on the bubble over Lawler

WW: #1-6 is spot on. Brenneman at #7 is a joke. he is #10 at best...he got beaten silly 2 fights ago by Hendricks, then beat some mediocre guy before pulling off a major upset.. Penn should be #7 after beating Hughes (coming off 3 fairly impressive wins) and drawing the #2 WW in the world (though i still say Fitch won). Story at #8, Alves #9, and DHK or Ellenberger at #10 round off the rankings.

LW: i think Aoki is a few spots too high. though an impressive record, it isnt all against good opponents. #6 i think is where he should be. funny to not see Sherk on the bubble. everything else is pretty good, though i would flip flop Pettis and Guillard

FW: WHERE THE HELL IS MARK HOMINICK?? Florian should not be #4 after 1 fight. top 10, yeah for sure. i dont think Tyson should be up there, especially if Hominick is left off. the rest seems reasonable

BW: i would flip flip Johnson and Jorgensen. dont know too much else about this class to make informed opinions

Last edited 7/6/11 12:16PM server time by Bubbles
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Post #7   7/6/11 12:04:03PM   

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Posted by bjj1605

I think the HW rankings are damn near perfect.

At LHW I think Anderson Silva or Thiago Silva deserve to be in there above Feijao.

At MW I don't think Santiago belongs in there. Especially not when they don't include Vitor. It is hard to rank Vitor because of his lack of activity in the weight class, but you have to have him in there because that weight is his home now.

At WW I think both Diaz and BJ need to be higher up. Brenneman (while I think he deserves to be in there) should in no way be higher than #10. He only has one win deserving of mention in the top ten discussion. He is currently ranked HIGHER THAN BJ!!!

LW is good but Aoki shouldn't be higher than 9 or 10 because the opponents he's facing are weak. He's a big fish in a small pond and none of his wins lately do anything to convince me he could compete with the top UFC LWs.

At FW Hominick and Pitbull Freire should be in there above Tyson Griffin or Manny.

At BW I think Uriah is unjustifiably high. He should be down around 8 or 9. He's done nothing at that weight and hasn't done very well in any weight class lately. I also think that "Barao" should be in there over Mizugaki who has fallen out of the top 10 IMO.




Anderson Silva should NOT be ranked at LHW. i dont care what he did 2+ years ago or what he could do there now, its about what have you done lately. and Anderson has done nothing there lately. Thiago Silva i can agree with over Feijao.

Belfort should not be ranked at MW either...and shouldnt have been at the time of the title fight. since when does going 0-1 in the previous 2.5 years get your ranked, let alone ZERO MW fights in 2 years prior to the title shot

Faber beat top 10 Mizugaki and fringe top 10 Wineland and fought a very close fight with the champ. how the hell does that equate to an 8 spot?

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Post #8   7/6/11 12:13:02PM   

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Posted by Bubbles


Posted by bjj1605

I think the HW rankings are damn near perfect.

At LHW I think Anderson Silva or Thiago Silva deserve to be in there above Feijao.

At MW I don't think Santiago belongs in there. Especially not when they don't include Vitor. It is hard to rank Vitor because of his lack of activity in the weight class, but you have to have him in there because that weight is his home now.

At WW I think both Diaz and BJ need to be higher up. Brenneman (while I think he deserves to be in there) should in no way be higher than #10. He only has one win deserving of mention in the top ten discussion. He is currently ranked HIGHER THAN BJ!!!

LW is good but Aoki shouldn't be higher than 9 or 10 because the opponents he's facing are weak. He's a big fish in a small pond and none of his wins lately do anything to convince me he could compete with the top UFC LWs.

At FW Hominick and Pitbull Freire should be in there above Tyson Griffin or Manny.

At BW I think Uriah is unjustifiably high. He should be down around 8 or 9. He's done nothing at that weight and hasn't done very well in any weight class lately. I also think that "Barao" should be in there over Mizugaki who has fallen out of the top 10 IMO.




Anderson Silva should NOT be ranked at LHW. i dont care what he did 2+ years ago or what he could do there now, its about what have you done lately. and Anderson has done nothing there lately. Thiago Silva i can agree with over Feijao.

Belfort should not be ranked at MW either...and shouldnt have been at the time of the title fight. since when does going 0-1 in the previous 2.5 years get your ranked, let alone ZERO MW fights in 2 years prior to the title shot

Faber beat top 10 Mizugaki and fringe top 10 Wineland and fought a very close fight with the champ. how the hell does that equate to an 8 spot?



I guess I believe in making the rankings accurate to reality rather than reflective of the numbers. Belfort, since he is fighting at MW, deserves to be ranked where he falls in the division. Anderson, since he has fought and might fight at LHW, deserves to be ranked close to where he falls in the division (where he actually falls is number 1 or number 2).

Faber has basically been alternating one win with one loss for the past three years. He is 2-2 in his last 4. 3-3 in his last 6. And 4-4 in his last 8. Of those, only 3 fights have been at BW. I'm not advocating removing him from the rankings. I just think he's unduly high. A win average of .500 does not a upper echelon fighter make.

Post #9   7/6/11 12:32:39PM   

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all around it's actually a surprisingly solid list. These things are usually just off-the-wall crazy and wrong, and I don't see a whole lot of problems with this one. There are some fighters I would shuffle around a little bit maybe, and I think it's pretty silly that Brenneman is in the top 10 after one pretty lackluster lay and pray win over Story, whose only really significant win so far is over Thiago Silva, a matchup that favoured him very heavily stylistically.

I don't think Brenneman should be on any lists yet. That was a nice win, he seized a great opportunity and made the most out of it, I'm sure everyone's happy for him, but the reality is that the guy hasn't fought anyone noteworthy other than Story, and I would argue that the fact that he was coming in on short notice was actually an advantage, not a disadvantage, since I feel that when you fight higher level fighters you tend to prepare for that fighter more specifically than you do when you face fighters are a lower level, where you'll probably do more of an all-around training regimen.

Post #10   7/6/11 1:15:02PM   

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Posted by FlashyG


Posted by bjj1605

At WW I think both Diaz and BJ need to be higher up. Brenneman (while I think he deserves to be in there) should in no way be higher than #10. He only has one win deserving of mention in the top ten discussion. He is currently ranked HIGHER THAN BJ!!!




That one win is exactly one more than BJ has to warrant him being in title contention.

Who has BJ beaten at 170 to justify him being in the top 10? Other than an over the hill Matt Hughes his last win at 170 was against Duane Ludwig almost 8 years ago.



A win over Hughes and taking Fitch to a very close draw are worth a hell of a lot more than lay and praying Rick Story. Who has even looked like they had a chance against Fitch other than GSP? Sorry man but your statement is flat out wrong, W and L doesn't tell the story of a fighter's skill level, how the fight went down, the caliber of opponent, and about a million other things that you're blatantly ignoring by saying "lol he has a win and BJ doesn't"

Last edited 7/6/11 1:19PM server time by Aether
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Post #11   7/6/11 1:16:12PM   

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HW- Werdum is to high and Bigfoot is to low. I would have Werdum at 8 and Silva at 5, putting Brock at 4 and Reem at 3
LHW- Nog and Feijao i dont think should be ranked in the top 10. I would switch those guys with Mousasi and Franklin. Mousasi 10, Franklin 9, Phil 8, Hendo 7, everything else looks good.
MW- I have a big problem with Vitor not being ranked. I personally have him at 6. Santiago at 9 is a joke, there's no way he's in the top 10.
WW- Koscheck is a little to high for my liking, i personally have him at 6 as of rite now. I dont think Brenneman should be ranked at all, but the fact that he's higher than BJ is laughable.
LW- I personally have Maynard over Melendez, but that's not a big deal. Guillard needs to be at 7 over Guida and Pettis. Kawajiri is not a top 10er, i would probably switch him with Bendo.
FW- Rite away i notice Hominick is not in the top 10, but guys like Gamburyan and Griffin are..... Thats a pretty big mistake in my opinion.
BW- Not to bad, but there's no way Mizugaki is in the top 10 and Barao is not.

I always look at Sherdogs rankings, but as of rite now ESPN has the better rankings is my opinion.

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Post #12   7/6/11 1:33:23PM   

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Posted by bjj1605

I guess I believe in making the rankings accurate to reality rather than reflective of the numbers. Belfort, since he is fighting at MW, deserves to be ranked where he falls in the division. Anderson, since he has fought and might fight at LHW, deserves to be ranked close to where he falls in the division (where he actually falls is number 1 or number 2).

Faber has basically been alternating one win with one loss for the past three years. He is 2-2 in his last 4. 3-3 in his last 6. And 4-4 in his last 8. Of those, only 3 fights have been at BW. I'm not advocating removing him from the rankings. I just think he's unduly high. A win average of .500 does not a upper echelon fighter make.



but how do we know where Belfort falls in the division when he has only ONE fight there in the past 2 and a half years and got knocked out in 3 minutes? for all we know guys like Bisping, Munoz, Belcher and Dan Miller can beat him, or he can run through those guys. speculation cannot be a factor in ranking fighters. Leben has been way more successful over the same time frame against quality opponents (Sexy i believe was top 10 and Simpson maybe top 15-20), and lost to the current #8 but we wont give him any consideration yet Belfort essentially gets a free pass to the top 5? sorry but i dont buy it.

same with Anderson. how can you pit him #1 or 2 at LHW based on fighting smaller fighters in a much weaker division? yeah his fight with Forrest was very impressive (over 2 years ago), but Jardine also knocked him out too. we know Silva has mediocre TDD and guys like Evans and Rampage (if he ever considers the TD) can beat him there, especially in a 3 round fight. Silva has never fought someone with close to his reach like Jones does who has a diverse striking arsenal....and he is a very quick explosive wrestler. Shogun likes to go for TDs and has a pretty slick BJJ game...he also is far better than any striker Silva has faced. Rampage has an iron chin and concrete hands with solid MMA boxing. Phil Davis may be able to use his wrestling to decision Silva in a 3 round fight. Forrest with a much better gameplan (ie wrestling) can beat Silva.

now im not saying that Silva will go winless in his next run at LHW, but we cant assume anything in MMA because anything can happen.

Faber alternating wins and loses was at FW...he is now fighting at BW and that is where his fights matter for BW rankins. if you want to look at his last 3 loses: he took Cruz to a close decision, first person to take Aldo the distance in the WEC, and fought MTB to a decision with a broken hand for half the fight (or did he break both?). his 2 wins at BW and a close decision loss for the title are the only things that should be considered. #3 may be a little high for him, i can agree to that, but #8 i think is silly. #5 is most reasonable imo. Faber has done much more at BW than Vitor has at MW, yet you want to give Belfort top5 and Faber #8? thats kinda contradicting.

coles notes version: if you want to rank a fighter in a division, you can only look at what he has done solely in that division within the last year to a year and a half. speculation and fights in other divisions dont count

edit: sorry if i come across harsh. not my intention at all, i am just trying to really elaborate my point. that and i really dont like Anderson lol

Last edited 7/6/11 2:05PM server time by Bubbles
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Post #13   7/6/11 1:46:02PM   

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Posted by hashyandy4
HW- Werdum is to high and Bigfoot is to low. I would have Werdum at 8 and Silva at 5, putting Brock at 4 and Reem at 3



you do know that Werdum beat Bigfoot right?

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Post #14   7/6/11 1:49:22PM   

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Posted by Bubbles


Posted by hashyandy4
HW- Werdum is to high and Bigfoot is to low. I would have Werdum at 8 and Silva at 5, putting Brock at 4 and Reem at 3



you do know that Werdum beat Bigfoot right?



Of course i know that man, i would have no buisness posting if i didn't know a gimme like that. But just because Werdum might be a bad matchup for bigfoot doesn't meen u rank him higher.
Also Bigfoot is on a win streak since that loss, and Werdum is coming off a really ugly loss. Not ugly like he got beat up by Alistar, but ugly like he drug his ass all over the cage like my dog does when she has worms.
That's like saying we have to put Lil Nog over Hendo in the rankings becauase he beat him. Obviously not to the same extent at all but it is the same concept.
If u were to ask me who in Strikeforce has the best chance 2 beat JDS or Cain i would say Bigfoot before Werdum for sure.

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Post #15   7/6/11 2:12:33PM   
 
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