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Does anybody question Dos Santos's power now?

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40ouncetpkid

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I didn't put this in the spoiler section since it doesn't spoil the winner at all.

But does anybody question Dos Santos's power now? Carwin & Roy got pretty good chins. Especially the knees Roy took from Mir.

Werdum has a good chin of his own and Dos Santos sparked him out in 1 round, where as Overeem couldn't. So can we say Dos Santos has some of the best power in the game?

Last edited 6/19/11 1:15AM server time by 40ouncetpkid
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Post #1   6/19/11 1:15:32AM   

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Posted by 40ouncetpkid

Werdum has a good chin of his own and Dos Santos sparked him out in 1 round, where as Overeem couldn't. So can we say Dos Santos has some of the best power in the game?



I'm not disputing JDS's power, but those fights were apples and oranges. Werdum's strategy was the biggest factor in both fights, which were polar opposites. If Werdum was given a mulligan against Dos Santos, I'm sure he would fight a bit differently...and in doing so, Junior would have adjusted appropriately as well. I think a better comparison would be JDS/Carwin to Overeem/Werdum, rather than Werdum as the common opponent to both guys.

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Post #2   6/19/11 1:27:38AM   

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Posted by 40ouncetpkid

I didn't put this in the spoiler section since it doesn't spoil the winner at all.

But does anybody question Dos Santos's power now? Carwin & Roy got pretty good chins. Especially the knees Roy took from Mir.

Werdum has a good chin of his own and Dos Santos sparked him out in 1 round, where as Overeem couldn't. So can we say Dos Santos has some of the best power in the game?






Nobody really doubts JDS' power, maybe his finishing ability but there really is no question that he has power.

Grappler already said it, your comparing completely different things. Against JDS, Werdum came in completely out of shape and stood there and ate an uppercut, what do you expect the outcome to be?

Against Overeem he flopped or pulled guard everytime Allistair got close enough to do anything.

Is it easier to hit a baseball off a tee or 95 mph fastball? Two different things.

And "sparked" him out?? I don't see that catching on.....

Post #3   6/19/11 1:49:22AM   

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tell you what.

JDS vs Overeem will look like boxer vs kick boxer (with boxer's hands)

JDS boxing isn't too far beyond Overeems and Overeems Kickboxing is beyond JDS' kickboxing.

I thin the key will be the ground game and conditioning.

I think JDS will have better conditioning and Overeem will have better GnP, TD and Submission Skills.

Although Overeemw ill be the better overall fighter... I think that unless his steps up his intensity and conditioning (which you can't tell how good it is) JDS could win by UD.

If Allistar comes well conditioned, I think he'll negate JDS' boxing and take him down at will after the first round. (but if they fought now, I'd pick JDS to stuff TDs)

To answer your question, I'd say that due to the atmosphere of the UFC, Werdum couldn't fight exactly how he wanted and IDK if JDS would fight the same way against Overeem. Also, I'd give power to Overeem, boxing to JDS and Kickboxing to Overeem, TD to Overeem and Ground game about even. Although, GnP would be Overeem and he'd be most likely to have the chance to GnP.

I don't look at JDS as a powerful guy, I see a solid technicion that that wreck opponents... not a carwin or anything less.

Post #4   6/19/11 2:18:32AM   

40ouncetpkid

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Posted by Adrenaline

And "sparked" him out?? I don't see that catching on.....




Huh? Sparked out same thing as knocked out. Don't know what your saying.


Posted by grappler0000

I'm not disputing JDS's power, but those fights were apples and oranges. Werdum's strategy was the biggest factor in both fights, which were polar opposites. If Werdum was given a mulligan against Dos Santos, I'm sure he would fight a bit differently...and in doing so, Junior would have adjusted appropriately as well. I think a better comparison would be JDS/Carwin to Overeem/Werdum, rather than Werdum as the common opponent to both guys.



I see what your saying and your right, Werdum didn't know Dos Santos like Carwin & Roy did, I don't know where I heard it I go to a few different places for my MMA news but I heard people saying "Dos Santos ain't the one punch KO artist we all thought he was since he didn't finish Carwin or Nelson.

I'm just saying if people where thinking his power was overrated I definitely would say tonight proved it wasn't.

Post #5   6/19/11 3:16:10AM   

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Hilarious!!!

JDS would lose to Overeem but I agree with Mir..cain takes them all...best chin cardio and best we3ll rounded...by far best wrestler...Look at this...Carwin almost foiled Brock but Brock subbed carwin....carwin goes the distance with JDS.... Cain utterly destroys Brock to a point it aint even a fight...

So who you got? Put your money where your mouth is...Overeem beats JDS cause hes got a chin and leg kicks...With JDS its obvious...Hes so high on his hands and striking he thinks he can win...Has no other even worry about rounding out his game...

Post #6   6/19/11 5:12:22AM   

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Posted by kingsmasher

Hilarious!!!

JDS would lose to Overeem but I agree with Mir..cain takes them all...best chin cardio and best we3ll rounded...by far best wrestler...Look at this...Carwin almost foiled Brock but Brock subbed carwin....carwin goes the distance with JDS.... Cain utterly destroys Brock to a point it aint even a fight...

So who you got? Put your money where your mouth is...Overeem beats JDS cause hes got a chin and leg kicks...With JDS its obvious...Hes so high on his hands and striking he thinks he can win...Has no other even worry about rounding out his game...



Come on man let's be serious here, haven't you learn MMA math doesn't work especially when you picked Carwin over Junior? And I never said anything about Junior beating anybody in particular just that people shouldn't say his power is overrated.

And also if Overeem proved anything last night it's that he's human and he's been knocked out several times in the past. Even by Sergei who's in this tournament also right now. All is might have shown is if you survived the 1st round your chances of beating him increase and if Junior hits them with those same shots Werdum did, Overem would fold as he's done in the past several times. Chin and Cardio have always been his demise. Not saying their bad but their not his best assets by far.

And just saying, not to take anything away from Overeem, winning the K-1 tournament is an amazing achievement by any man but he by far didn't have the hardest road. His first opponent was game but wasn't at the level of Peter Aerts or Semmy, and they beat the hell out of each other in a war, then an hour or so later battered Aerts fought a lot fresher Overeem.

Last edited 6/19/11 5:53AM server time by 40ouncetpkid
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Post #7   6/19/11 5:51:10AM   

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Overeems K-1 title was more about right time, right place. You can't discredit his skills but I think we clearly saw that he doesn't like to get hit, and still has suspect cardio.

Post #8   6/19/11 9:25:40AM   

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Werdum lost whatever respect I had for him after that shananagans....... if you cant get the fight to the ground then you stand you dont butt scoop and roll around like sonic the hedgehog.

Post #9   6/19/11 11:49:21AM   

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Posted by sbulldavid

Overeems K-1 title was more about right time, right place. You can't discredit his skills but I think we clearly saw that he doesn't like to get hit, and still has suspect cardio.



I don't think he had any problem getting hit by Werdum, in fact, I think he had a total disregard for Werdum's striking, because as Alistair said, Werdum wasn't trying to KO him, he was just looking for a take down set up.

Post #10   6/19/11 2:28:04PM   

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Hmm, surprised people have questioned Dos Santos' power.

He has pretty much hurt every opponent he has had, flatlined Yvel and messed up Carwin and Nelson. KO'd Werdum, who is actually a very resilient fighter (although ballooned up to a crazy 256lbs for the fight and looked out of shape).



I think the only thing I still question JDS about is his offensive production in the latter rounds. I give Carwin fight a pass considering he desperately tried to finish the fight and punched himself out a bit... but also did the same thing against Nelson. Going against a guy like Cain who is highly regarded in the cardio department makes me think that JDS maybe only has 5-7 minutes tops to finish the fight... which is certainly possible, but not as likely IMO.


Other than that he looks pretty solid.

Post #11   6/19/11 2:32:48PM   

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Posted by DosBox

Hmm, surprised people have questioned Dos Santos' power.

He has pretty much hurt every opponent he has had, flatlined Yvel and messed up Carwin and Nelson. KO'd Werdum, who is actually a very resilient fighter (although ballooned up to a crazy 256lbs for the fight and looked out of shape).



I think the only thing I still question JDS about is his offensive production in the latter rounds. I give Carwin fight a pass considering he desperately tried to finish the fight and punched himself out a bit... but also did the same thing against Nelson. Going against a guy like Cain who is highly regarded in the cardio department makes me think that JDS maybe only has 5-7 minutes tops to finish the fight... which is certainly possible, but not as likely IMO.


Other than that he looks pretty solid.



This is what bothers me about the posters here...Everyone here questions Carwins cardio based on the Brock fight...cause he threw 100 punches...but JDS gets a pass when he gassed against Carwin for exactly what Carwin did...but he gassed against Nelson too...ANd there was nothing spectacular in that fight where he should have looked gassed...but he was....

Post #12   6/19/11 2:42:10PM   

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Posted by kingsmasher



This is what bothers me about the posters here...Everyone here questions Carwins cardio based on the Brock fight...cause he threw 100 punches...but JDS gets a pass when he gassed against Carwin for exactly what Carwin did...but he gassed against Nelson too...ANd there was nothing spectacular in that fight where he should have looked gassed...but he was....



Agreed.. I say JDS gets a pass considering how devastating the onslaught was.. similar to how Carwin's onslaught on Brock was.. I always just "felt" Carwin didnt have the best cardio due to the muscle frame.. so I thought it was always suspect but have never used it against specifically against the Brock fight.. although he gassed much harder than JDS did.

And yep, JDS offensive productivity did slow down against Nelson considerably.

I guess it is a bit easier to question (or use it against him) in Carwins cardio-dump in the Brock fight considering he ended up losing the fight, whereas JDS cruised on to win 30-26... JDS still had something in the tank considering he was able to change levels and hit doubles on Carwin.... but in comparison to Cain's hellacious pace and cardio... it somewhat pales in comparison.

The JDS cardio is more on a relative basis, compared to Cain's.

Post #13   6/19/11 2:50:17PM   

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Posted by 40ouncetpkid


Posted by kingsmasher

Hilarious!!!

JDS would lose to Overeem but I agree with Mir..cain takes them all...best chin cardio and best we3ll rounded...by far best wrestler...Look at this...Carwin almost foiled Brock but Brock subbed carwin....carwin goes the distance with JDS.... Cain utterly destroys Brock to a point it aint even a fight...

So who you got? Put your money where your mouth is...Overeem beats JDS cause hes got a chin and leg kicks...With JDS its obvious...Hes so high on his hands and striking he thinks he can win...Has no other even worry about rounding out his game...



Come on man let's be serious here, haven't you learn MMA math doesn't work especially when you picked Carwin over Junior? And I never said anything about Junior beating anybody in particular just that people shouldn't say his power is overrated.

And also if Overeem proved anything last night it's that he's human and he's been knocked out several times in the past. Even by Sergei who's in this tournament also right now. All is might have shown is if you survived the 1st round your chances of beating him increase and if Junior hits them with those same shots Werdum did, Overem would fold as he's done in the past several times. Chin and Cardio have always been his demise. Not saying their bad but their not his best assets by far.

And just saying, not to take anything away from Overeem, winning the K-1 tournament is an amazing achievement by any man but he by far didn't have the hardest road. His first opponent was game but wasn't at the level of Peter Aerts or Semmy, and they beat the hell out of each other in a war, then an hour or so later battered Aerts fought a lot fresher Overeem.



MMA works all day long...how do you think odds makers make the odds...If it was based on style matchups..stylistically Carwin should of been the favorite...

I picked Carwin really based on hope he would actually fight the fight he shoulda fought..I didnt put a wager on him by no means...i thoguht about it...and remembered back to what his trainer said in the Brock fight about beginning of second round when Brock winked and trevor said I knew we were in trouble...If I am a fighter I personally would not want that kind of train of thought around me and if it was he should never of stated it....but from Carwin...Instead he showed his Takedowns are in no way worthy of mentioning...He had JDS against the fence exactly where he should want him but threw nothing...Then stands in front of a jab the rest of the fight....I gave them too much credit for being a close camp to Greg Jackson....In all honesty I would like to know exactly what the game plan was...Cause what was displayed was not a winning game plan to beat JDS but more like a win on a silver platter...

Post #14   6/19/11 2:50:57PM   

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I have said on multiple occasions that I think JDS' power is overhyped based off his flash-knockout of Werdum. I don't think that JDS ISN'T powerful, but I definitely think that he's gotten way more credit for his power than he deserves at this stage.

Honestly, I see him more of a technical striker than a power striker. People may feel free to disagree with me, but Carwin is a power striker. That was evidenced in the JDS fight. The one decent shot Carwin did land really hurt JDS and he circled out and backed off. I'm not saying he had JDS in trouble or could have won based on that shot, but it certainly hurt JDS and that was pretty visible.

My issue with Carwin is pretty much the same as kingsmasher's (I think). Carwin's best chance to win that fight was to press JDS against the cage and either take him down, or do exactly what he did against Mir. He refused to do that. I'm really starting to get pissed with high level wrestlers that fall in love with boxing and completely abandon what they know to be their bread and butter. Carwin was a stellar collegiate wrestler and is still actively involved in collegiate wrestling, but you'd never know it based on his fighting style.

Post #15   6/19/11 8:09:48PM   
 
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