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Frank Shamrock's legacy...

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40ouncetpkid

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Do you feel he is a top 25 ATG MMA fighter? I don't know if they make lists like that like they do with boxing since it hasn't been around as long as boxing but their have been a lot of great fighters or the years, where you do you think Frank lands?

I honestly think he could have been as big if not bigger then Chuck, Tito, Or Randy if he didn't take those long layoffs from the sport. Prime Frank actually amazed me. He absolutely dominated Prime Tito who I think highly of before his prime ended by domination from Randy and getting his head knocked off by Chuck.

Post #1   6/8/11 1:37:27AM   

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Frank should definitely be considered in the top 25 ATG list cause his acheivements in the sport and his contribution to the growth of mma have to be recognised and his fights are just classics the one with Tito back in the day was amazing and his fights with guys like Bas Rutten, Cung Lee, Jeremy Horn to name a few were "classics". Frank would and should have been in the UFC hall of fame already if it wasn't for his beef with Dana and the UFC. Thats a shame cause he deserves to be there.

Post #2   6/8/11 2:07:04AM   

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Frank is in the top 25 right now, but newer fans that only saw his recent SF fights may not understand why. Looking back to the American beginnings of the sport it was often one style against another when two guys got in the cage. Frank and Bas are the two guys most often referred to as the first complete fighters. They both were able to win a fight whether it was on the feet or the ground which was a rare commodity at the time. When comparing him to the fighters now I'm sure there will be some TUF-era fans that say "There's no way he could hang with the guys fighting now," and they might have a point, but in his prime it was a different era and it's like comparing Babe Ruth to Albert Pujols, both great players in their time, but the game and the players/fighters have evolved making the comparison apples to oranges. In his prime he was as good of a fighter as there was and deserves to be remembered as such.

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Post #3   6/8/11 8:22:52AM   

warglory

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Even beyond the TUFers, I think strictly UFC fans don't even understand his legacy, unless they embraced Pancrase as well. Pancrase, like his brother, is where he really shined and developed his rep, those fights alone make him and his brother great.

Post #4   6/8/11 10:28:32AM   

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Posted by warglory

Even beyond the TUFers, I think strictly UFC fans don't even understand his legacy, unless they embraced Pancrase as well. Pancrase, like his brother, is where he really shined and developed his rep, those fights alone make him and his brother great.



Great point, I didn't even want to go back that far or I would have written a novel, but that was the proving ground for a lot of the guys that are "legends" today.

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Post #5   6/8/11 11:08:25AM   

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I think so...it's close to a Hall Of Fame type of honor. It's hard to quantify the qualifications for such a thing, but I do think his contribution to the sport has been significant.

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“I don’t know what kind of technique was used there, but there was a lot of kicking and punching.” Jim Brown

Post #6   6/8/11 4:52:13PM   

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Frank gets lost because of his fallout with the UFC, but this was fighter of the decade for the first generation of MMA and was one of the first truly great fighters that could win the fight wherever the fight took place.

Post #7   6/8/11 7:44:34PM   

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Posted by cowcatcher

Frank is in the top 25 right now, but newer fans that only saw his recent SF fights may not understand why. Looking back to the American beginnings of the sport it was often one style against another when two guys got in the cage. Frank and Bas are the two guys most often referred to as the first complete fighters. They both were able to win a fight whether it was on the feet or the ground which was a rare commodity at the time. When comparing him to the fighters now I'm sure there will be some TUF-era fans that say "There's no way he could hang with the guys fighting now," and they might have a point, but in his prime it was a different era and it's like comparing Babe Ruth to Albert Pujols, both great players in their time, but the game and the players/fighters have evolved making the comparison apples to oranges. In his prime he was as good of a fighter as there was and deserves to be remembered as such.

i do not care how old Bas is i bet half the fighters in the UFC would cry if he kicked them.

I can't remember how many people i saw him KO with a kick or a knee to the liver. I know its joked about now but he really could hit you liver and make you wish you were dead. He also KOed a guy with a palm strike... thats pretty much slapping someone so hard they go to sleep

Post #8   6/8/11 8:29:21PM   

warglory

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Posted by Jekyll


Posted by cowcatcher

Frank is in the top 25 right now, but newer fans that only saw his recent SF fights may not understand why. Looking back to the American beginnings of the sport it was often one style against another when two guys got in the cage. Frank and Bas are the two guys most often referred to as the first complete fighters. They both were able to win a fight whether it was on the feet or the ground which was a rare commodity at the time. When comparing him to the fighters now I'm sure there will be some TUF-era fans that say "There's no way he could hang with the guys fighting now," and they might have a point, but in his prime it was a different era and it's like comparing Babe Ruth to Albert Pujols, both great players in their time, but the game and the players/fighters have evolved making the comparison apples to oranges. In his prime he was as good of a fighter as there was and deserves to be remembered as such.

i do not care how old Bas is i bet half the fighters in the UFC would cry if he kicked them.

I can't remember how many people i saw him KO with a kick or a knee to the liver. I know its joked about now but he really could hit you liver and make you wish you were dead. He also KOed a guy with a palm strike... thats pretty much slapping someone so hard they go to sleep



In Pancrase you had to use palm strikes, and according to Bas, in some scenarios it's actually more damaging to use palm strikes.

Post #9   6/8/11 9:07:28PM   

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Posted by warglory


Posted by Jekyll


Posted by cowcatcher

Frank is in the top 25 right now, but newer fans that only saw his recent SF fights may not understand why. Looking back to the American beginnings of the sport it was often one style against another when two guys got in the cage. Frank and Bas are the two guys most often referred to as the first complete fighters. They both were able to win a fight whether it was on the feet or the ground which was a rare commodity at the time. When comparing him to the fighters now I'm sure there will be some TUF-era fans that say "There's no way he could hang with the guys fighting now," and they might have a point, but in his prime it was a different era and it's like comparing Babe Ruth to Albert Pujols, both great players in their time, but the game and the players/fighters have evolved making the comparison apples to oranges. In his prime he was as good of a fighter as there was and deserves to be remembered as such.

i do not care how old Bas is i bet half the fighters in the UFC would cry if he kicked them.

I can't remember how many people i saw him KO with a kick or a knee to the liver. I know its joked about now but he really could hit you liver and make you wish you were dead. He also KOed a guy with a palm strike... thats pretty much slapping someone so hard they go to sleep



In Pancrase you had to use palm strikes, and according to Bas, in some scenarios it's actually more damaging to use palm strikes.

i know it all in how you hit them, i was kinda being sarcastic... the strike he used was a straight palm strike to the bridge of the nose and the guy dropped. It was his first fight in Pancrase. I was trying to paint the picture of a bitch slap that put a guy out, but you rained on that...


IMo Bas was one of the most dangerous strikes in MMA history, he could time his kicks with his opponents breathing to cause more pain. Keep in mind in Pancrase they worse pads on their shins and he skill KOed people with kicks to the body.

Post #10   6/8/11 9:20:33PM   

warglory

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Posted by Jekyll


Posted by warglory


Posted by Jekyll


Posted by cowcatcher

Frank is in the top 25 right now, but newer fans that only saw his recent SF fights may not understand why. Looking back to the American beginnings of the sport it was often one style against another when two guys got in the cage. Frank and Bas are the two guys most often referred to as the first complete fighters. They both were able to win a fight whether it was on the feet or the ground which was a rare commodity at the time. When comparing him to the fighters now I'm sure there will be some TUF-era fans that say "There's no way he could hang with the guys fighting now," and they might have a point, but in his prime it was a different era and it's like comparing Babe Ruth to Albert Pujols, both great players in their time, but the game and the players/fighters have evolved making the comparison apples to oranges. In his prime he was as good of a fighter as there was and deserves to be remembered as such.

i do not care how old Bas is i bet half the fighters in the UFC would cry if he kicked them.

I can't remember how many people i saw him KO with a kick or a knee to the liver. I know its joked about now but he really could hit you liver and make you wish you were dead. He also KOed a guy with a palm strike... thats pretty much slapping someone so hard they go to sleep



In Pancrase you had to use palm strikes, and according to Bas, in some scenarios it's actually more damaging to use palm strikes.

i know it all in how you hit them, i was kinda being sarcastic... the strike he used was a straight palm strike to the bridge of the nose and the guy dropped. It was his first fight in Pancrase. I was trying to paint the picture of a bitch slap that put a guy out, but you rained on that...


IMo Bas was one of the most dangerous strikes in MMA history, he could time his kicks with his opponents breathing to cause more pain. Keep in mind in Pancrase they worse pads on their shins and he skill KOed people with kicks to the body.



Sorry to rain on your parade, sarcasm on the Internet can be a fickle bitch.

Post #11   6/9/11 11:13:24AM   

40ouncetpkid

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I honestly believe if Frank didn't leave he would have been one of the greatest UFC champions in history. I honestly think we would be mentioning him with names like BJ, Hughes, Chuck, Randy, and Tito. He was so dominant while he was in the UFC it was ridiculous.

Post #12   6/15/11 1:43:02AM   

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Definitely would be a top 25 ATG in my opinion. He was the first UFC LHW champion, the first California (mainstream) MMA headliner, one of the first non-BJJ or Sambo guys to use submissions and one of the first guys to use conditioning to win fights down the stretch.

He won championships in Pancrase, the UFC, the WEC and Strikeforce and In the UFC he was 5-0 with all wins coming by submission.

There was also a time--around when he beat Zinoviev and Jackson in a matter of seconds, that he would have received a lot of votes for the #1 p4p fighter in the world.


Not a bad career at all.

Post #13   6/17/11 2:51:04PM