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Clay Guida does NOT LnP
Clay Guida does NOT LnP |
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warglory
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 465-318
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Portland, ME
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First and foremost, so I can cut off disgruntled Pettis fans right now, Pettis is going to be a future champ one day, he is only 24 and a disgusting fighter, BUT, he had one glaring weakness...wrestling, and Guida took full advantage of that weakness.
Now, the main reason I am posting. I haven't read so many sour grapes comments in my years watching MMA. SO many people are complaining that Guida "fitched" his way to victory, and LnP'ed this and that. Newsflash: Clay Guida does NOT lay n pray, and if you accuse him of such, you clearly have no idea what lay n pray is. The man didn't stop once the entire fight, he was on fire. If Pettis was an inferior BJJ practitioner, that would have been a finish (and again, MAJOR props to Pettis for showing his magnificent jits game), but Clay being Clay, nullified Pettis' skillset.
Personally, I was cheering, sitting at my computer watching this bout, and I never do that. This fight was so damn exciting; it really reinforced why I enjoy MMA, so to read all these fickle LnP comments was absolutely unbelievable to me (though it shouldn't be).
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Post #1 6/5/11 12:01:02PM
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SNAPNAPORTAP
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 89-84
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: FTW, IN
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Guida's victory last night is EXACTLY what Dana White is always preaching about FINISHING FIGHTS. Not once did he look to advance position, attempt to inflict damage through GnP, or finish the fight. He does stay "active", if you consider shoulder thrusts a strike. Guida does have SICK BJJ defense, but that is the only exciting thing about his game. I respect the fact he has a gameplan that he sticks to and works to perfection, but last night is why he is behind Jim MIller for the title shot, instead of Dana proclaiming Guida next in line after Maynard/Edgar. I wouldn't call Guida a "lay and pray" fighter, I have a new term for him. "DUMP n HUMP" Dumps people on their ass, then proceeds to hump it.
**COPYRIGHT ON THE DUMP N HUMP!! U HEARD IT HEAR FIRST!!**
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Post #2 6/5/11 12:34:30PM
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Jekyll
TROLL
Career record: 8-13
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location:
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Posted by warglory
First and foremost, so I can cut off disgruntled Pettis fans right now, Pettis is going to be a future champ one day, he is only 24 and a disgusting fighter, BUT, he had one glaring weakness...wrestling, and Guida took full advantage of that weakness.
Now, the main reason I am posting. I haven't read so many sour grapes comments in my years watching MMA. SO many people are complaining that Guida "fitched" his way to victory, and LnP'ed this and that. Newsflash: Clay Guida does NOT lay n pray, and if you accuse him of such, you clearly have no idea what lay n pray is. The man didn't stop once the entire fight, he was on fire. If Pettis was an inferior BJJ practitioner, that would have been a finish (and again, MAJOR props to Pettis for showing his magnificent jits game), but Clay being Clay, nullified Pettis' skillset.
Personally, I was cheering, sitting at my computer watching this bout, and I never do that. This fight was so damn exciting; it really reinforced why I enjoy MMA, so to read all these fickle LnP comments was absolutely unbelievable to me (though it shouldn't be).
you seem to not know what LnP is... LnP is simply holding your opponent down doing NOTHING to finish the fight... thats what Clay did, he simply controlled the fight with no thought of finishing it and hoping to get the nod at the end.
If you look back at Guidas "exciting" fights they are all fights in which he loses... he is very exciting when hes getting beat up, but when he wins he simply holds on. Look back at the Diaz fight, IMO Diaz won the fight because he was doing everything he could to finish the fight, all Guida was was try not to lose.
A fighter goes out to beat the other guy, a fighter does not go out to not lose. If you do not understand the difference in trying to win and trying not to lose then you can never understand LnP.
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Post #3 6/5/11 12:38:58PM
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Aleks_Smash
MMA Regular
Career record: 527-383
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: America
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I respect the fact that guida can hold a guy down. he does not have to punch/elbow/knee from the ground ever. He simply moves his opponent around while not allowing them to advance position. But he did not advance his position once last night until the end of the third round when he passed to half guard. What he does is not very pretty but it wins fights for him. People need to learn to stand up from guida on top. For you to deny that he holds people down and does not try to finish is crazy.
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Post #4 6/5/11 12:55:06PM
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warglory
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 465-318
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Portland, ME
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Posted by Jekyll
you seem to not know what LnP is... LnP is simply holding your opponent down doing NOTHING to finish the fight... thats what Clay did, he simply controlled the fight with no thought of finishing it and hoping to get the nod at the end.
If you look back at Guidas "exciting" fights they are all fights in which he loses... he is very exciting when hes getting beat up, but when he wins he simply holds on. Look back at the Diaz fight, IMO Diaz won the fight because he was doing everything he could to finish the fight, all Guida was was try not to lose.
A fighter goes out to beat the other guy, a fighter does not go out to not lose. If you do not understand the difference in trying to win and trying not to lose then you can never understand LnP.
LnP is controlling someone until time runs out, and getting the decision as a result, thus, playing it safe. Clay Guida has NEVER simply laid on someone to allow the time to run out, he grinds you, and consistently tries to do damage, never playing it safe. Just because he happens to fight guys on the ground who are quality ground fighters, like Pettis who has fantastic wrist control, all of a sudden he is a LnP'er? How come it's only wrestlers who get this wrap, why not jits guys who, in an effort to get a submission, constantly work for that one maneuver, and as a result don't land strikes in the process? LnP is old school UFC from guys like Tito Ortiz and Dan Severn who either didn't know how to transition to subs and gnp, or they didn't care to. Strategies to grind out opponents is not the same thing as LnP.
Furthermore, Clay Guida has finished his last 3 fights, where are you getting this idea that Clay doesn't finish fights? Guida ALWAYS tries to finish his fights. Beyond that, the fights he lost are still HIS fights, so to say that just because he lost them, they don't count is absurd. Clay fights the same fight every time he goes in with varying degrees of success, but he still fights the same way. If he is out-matched on the feet, he'll take your ass down, which is what he did to Pettis.
Last edited 6/5/11 1:01PM by warglory
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #5 6/5/11 1:00:09PM
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warglory
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 465-318
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Portland, ME
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Posted by SNAPNAPORTAP
Guida's victory last night is EXACTLY what Dana White is always preaching about FINISHING FIGHTS. Not once did he look to advance position, attempt to inflict damage through GnP, or finish the fight. He does stay "active", if you consider shoulder thrusts a strike. Guida does have SICK BJJ defense, but that is the only exciting thing about his game. I respect the fact he has a gameplan that he sticks to and works to perfection, but last night is why he is behind Jim MIller for the title shot, instead of Dana proclaiming Guida next in line after Maynard/Edgar. I wouldn't call Guida a "lay and pray" fighter, I have a new term for him. "DUMP n HUMP" Dumps people on their ass, then proceeds to hump it.
**COPYRIGHT ON THE DUMP N HUMP!! U HEARD IT HEAR FIRST!!**
Right, because diving into triangles and armbars with reckless abandon is LnP, or as you say, dump n hump. Ridiculous.
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Post #6 6/5/11 1:03:03PM
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warglory
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 465-318
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Portland, ME
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Posted by Aleks_Smash
I respect the fact that guida can hold a guy down. he does not have to punch/elbow/knee from the ground ever. He simply moves his opponent around while not allowing them to advance position. But he did not advance his position once last night until the end of the third round when he passed to half guard. What he does is not very pretty but it wins fights for him. People need to learn to stand up from guida on top. For you to deny that he holds people down and does not try to finish is crazy.
Guida always threw more signifcant strikes than Pettis did, how do you account for that? Guida was CONSTANTLY looking to move into a superior position, just because he doesn't toss his opponents around like rag dolls is more due to the superior ground opponents he fights, than his lack of aggression. Did you notice how many sub attempts he simply shrugged off from Pettis? Besides that, Guida stood w/ Roger Huerta, Kenny Florian, Takanori Gomi, Diego Sanchez, etc, yet all his detractors point out is his seemingly inability to finish guys on the mat.
Last edited 6/5/11 1:11PM by warglory
Edit note/reason: n/a
2 total post edits
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Post #7 6/5/11 1:08:35PM
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kingsmasher
BANNED
Career record: 244-148
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Orlando
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If Guida is LnP then Pettis is HnP means hold opponents wrist and hope he falls into a sub....he is just as much at fault as Guida....he should have looked to scramble back to the feet....When you dont get a sub like in the first round after all the attempts I dont know why a fighter thinks he will get one later when more sweat is a factor...YOu have to adapt in fights and game plan also as you go...
He shoudla abandoned the thoguht of submitting Clay...
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Post #8 6/5/11 1:14:02PM
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FastKnockout
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 525-315
Season: 16-8 (#1027)
Location: Mississippi
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Guida didn't lay and pray. It's just that when he wasn't trying to improve position, he was busy guarding himself from submissions and couldn't put up much of an offense. I thought it was a fun fight to watch from both fighters, though. I have no complaints.
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Post #9 6/5/11 1:40:57PM
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Chael_Sonnen
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 521-343
Season: 17-7 (#819)
Location: Say My Name
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Posted by FastKnockout
Guida didn't lay and pray. It's just that when he wasn't trying to improve position, he was busy guarding himself from submissions and couldn't put up much of an offense. I thought it was a fun fight to watch from both fighters, though. I have no complaints.
Clay LNP's about as much as Bisping knocks people out.
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Post #10 6/5/11 1:54:27PM
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KungFuMaster
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 244-207
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Central California
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It was an entertaining fight. I have told you guys Pettis is over-rated.  ....and I still do believe he is over-rated.
Anyway, the fight went almost exactly as I have imagined it would but I'll admit, I was cringing during the whole fight. 
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Post #11 6/5/11 2:04:22PM
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FastKnockout
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 525-315
Season: 16-8 (#1027)
Location: Mississippi
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Posted by KungFuMaster
It was an entertaining fight. I have told you guys Pettis is over-rated. ....and I still do believe he is over-rated.
Anyway, the fight went almost exactly as I have imagined it would but I'll admit, I was cringing during the whole fight.
How is he overrated?
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Post #12 6/5/11 2:10:51PM
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Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 454-292
Season: 16-8 (#771)
Location:
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I loved this fight, as I did the Torres/Johnson fight, as long as its active I enjoy a good ground fight.
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Post #13 6/5/11 2:11:13PM
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TeamDEY
Belt Contender
Career record: 152-124
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: North Carolina
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he didn't do much last night... except avoid submission
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Post #14 6/5/11 2:20:33PM
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Franklinfan47
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 997-549
Season: 19-5 (#302)
Location: Ontario
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Honestly, I think people are just bitter because they either picked Pettis or are sad to see him lose his title shot, which is understandable. He's an exciting, likeable guy, and a fight with Edgar/Maynard would have been awesome.
But face facts, wrestling isnt going anywhere in mma. Guida came in with a perfect gameplan and did we he needed to win. If Pettis doesnt like it, step up your game bro! Edgar, Maynard, Melendez, or Miller would all have done the same thing.
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Post #15 6/5/11 2:42:44PM
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