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TUF 13 Finale - Discussion and Results (spoilers)

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Joined:Jun 2007
Sucks we have to see Cope again....wooo!

Post #136   6/5/11 12:21:18AM   


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hate4thestate Avatar

Joined:Sep 2009
Camp: JTV All-Stars

Posted by kingsmasher

Posted by hate4thestate

Posted by kingsmasher

Posted by postman

Posted by kingsmasher

Posted by postman

Please tell me at what point in that fight did Guida ever put offense on Pettis he landed one overhand right and a few takedowns. Pettis was working triangles put a nice head kick on him, landed more punches from his back the Clay landed from top position. Locked up a armbar for a second. I knew that the judges would score that for Guida the always do. I knew a few playgrounders would as well.

I sure thought Guida contolled the pace octagon control and what you see as sub attempts are just that an attempt....I guess you would like to see better scoring for punches attempted....a sub attempt is nothing in my eyes but a waste of energy...

Dude if you don't stop a fight and it goes to the cards the fighter that inficts more damge and imposes more offense should be the winner of the fight. No matter if it is off your back or not.

I will leave you in your argument and let you wallow in your misery of obviously losing...I picked Pettis...but he did not win....

That's your counter arguement? FAIL.

OK for the sake of argument...Joe Rogan just said school yard logic matters in UFC...The guy on top the majority of people will think that person won the fight...Now for Guida and Pettis and Torres and Might Mouse...While they both attempted subs from the bottom they really only do one thing....Cost energy to the one trying....Neither Guida or Mighty mouse had any damage done to them...If I had to pick Pettis or Torres as the winner I thoguht Torres did a ton more from the bottom but I am going with how judging is today...And there was zero damage that we could see to either fighter...But Octagon Control is huge GUida did take Pettis down multiple times and really had no problem doing it...He controlled the fight and cause Joe Rogan yelling sub attempts are just attempts...I said before should then there be scoring for KO attempts why not? its the same thing....

KO attempts are scored... They are called punches. Now if they miss they arnt scored. But you cant even begin to compare strikes to sub attempts its not the same thing, but I will try.

Lets say a fight starts on the ground. Guida gets it standing (takedown).Now I see sub attempts more like jabs. They possibly set up other strikes, like landing a hard right (locking the sub in), koing the opponent (getting a tap or making them sleep). So Pettis only jabs while Guida only defends them. The you would say Guida wins?

I dont know how else to try to fit two different elements of the game into a comparison.

And I can cancel that school yard logic out instantly. Just look at the Edwards fight earlier tonight. Rogan said the dude on top at the end of the fight wins. Justin Edwards was on top at the end of that fight and he lost. Albeit a split decision but he still lost.

The judging system needs revision. It favors wrestlers so much to the point you can get dominated for 4:59 of a fight, get a takedown and win the round.

Post #137   6/5/11 12:23:42AM   


MODular Approach

grappler0000 Avatar

Joined:Mar 2007
Camp: The Ringers

Posted by kingsmasher

OK for the sake of argument...Joe Rogan just said school yard logic matters in UFC.

His tongue was firmly planted in his cheek when he made that statement. If you're actually using that as a basis for your argument, then you just lost the argument.

But Octagon Control is huge GUida did take Pettis down multiple times and really had no problem doing it...He controlled the fight and cause Joe Rogan yelling sub attempts are just attempts...

Octagon Control is not huge. It's a factor, but it's only a tertiary criteria. Not to mention, most judges have no idea what even constitutes Octagon Control, which is part of the problem. Oh, and sub attempts are a part of Octagon Control...but who cares about the rules, when there's a takedown to distract the judges.

I said before should then there be scoring for KO attempts why not? its the same thing....

There is indeed scoring for KO attempts...it's called landed strikes. Threatening with submission attempts are the grappling equivalent of landed strikes that don't produce a knockout. You can freely debate this all you want, but you'll have to throw out the rulebook to do so. Just because most of the MMA judges are clueless, doesn't make these sort of assumptions by fans a fact.

Last edited 6/5/11 12:29AM server time by grappler0000
Edit note/reason: n/a


Post #138   6/5/11 12:28:48AM   



ncordless Avatar

Joined:Apr 2007
Camp: The Ringers

Posted by Aether

Posted by ncordless

Posted by kopower

Posted by kingsmasher

Posted by ncordless

I thought Maldonado won rounds 1 and 3 because Maldonado got the better of every one of those clinches after the first one, but regardless it was an awesome fight.

I agree with everyone that Maldonado needs to move down to MW. He would give a lot of those guys problems.

no way Maldonado won the first...i see your point though when in the clinch hes hitting the body but depending on where the judges are and angle theyre at they might not see any of that and just see Kingsbury controlling Maldoando and kneeing him and they cant see Maldonado is blocking most with his arms...

Serioulsy the fight coulda been a draw...but not Maldonado winning


I agree that judges suck, and that I could envision that they would be giving those clinches to Kingsbury, but that doesn't mean he should have won. Maldonado blocked nearly every knee and was landing rib roasters.

Even when you block a knee, you take a pretty good deal of force from them, it's not like they should be considered completely negated. I think he also landed a lot more than you might think, Kingsbury was landing punches when they broke from the clinch pretty frequently as well as a decent amount of kicks and tons of knees. Maldonado definitely did damage with his shots but Kingsbury was landing more frequently and controlling the pace of the fight the whole round.

No sir. Check the fight metric, rewatch that fight without the sound. Maldonado outstruck Kingsbury in rounds 1 and 3.


Flame Not, Lest Ye Be Flamed Yourself.

Post #139   6/5/11 12:56:02PM   
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