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After Last night I got Carwin KO over JDS

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Posted by Aether

you are basing your pick of Carwin vs Dos Santos off of a fight between Frank Mir and Roy Nelson?



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Post #31   5/31/11 1:55:50PM   

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Posted by cowcatcher


Posted by Aether

you are basing your pick of Carwin vs Dos Santos off of a fight between Frank Mir and Roy Nelson?





I think he is.....or Story/Alves......???????

Post #32   5/31/11 2:39:33PM   

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Posted by kingsmasher


Posted by FastKnockout


Posted by kingsmasher

I just have to say when you look at common opponents and way of winning...heres my opinion..

Too much hype on JDS...Carwin devastated Mir and Mir beat Nelson the same as JDS...JDS in my eyes is on a level of Brendan Schaub but better standup but not much...

I thought Carwin over JDS before but now I am taking out loans on this fight....

And with carwin having the better camp heres how it will go down...

Just like the Rick Story and Alves fight...Carwin is gonna be in JDS face early and fight inside and wham first time you will see JDS get hit by a guy with power..Carwin by TKO...Book it...



I've been on The Playground for a while now, and this by far the dumbest post I've seen yet. No offense. There is so many things wrong with what you said I have to break my reply up into sections.

I'll just mention that MMA math never works, like everyone else has stated. I hope you don't make your picks using it.

How does Dos Santos have too much hype? He's done just as much as any other contender. He didn't hand pick his opponents, and the opponents the UFC did give him he destroyed one way or another. Saying Dos Santos is on the same level as Schaub is just crazy, and if you honestly believe that I wouldn't be able to respect your opinions on MMA. Thinking JDS has slightly better standup then Schaub makes me chuckle. Junior's striking is leaps and bounds ahead of Schaub.

How do you suppose Carwin has the better camp? Do you know where Dos Santos trains? Black House. Silva, Machida, Aldo, The Nog brothers, Souza, etc. I wouldn't give the edge to either camp.

I don't understand why your comparing the Alves/Story fight to Dos Santos carwin? Those are two totally different matchups that have almost nothing in common. If you think Dos Santos and Carwin will fight like Alves and Story, you will be very surprised when they fight happens. I remember fans saying Dos Santos was going to finally be tested by powerful strikers in both the Cro Cop and Yvel fights, and look what happened.




Who ever said JDS was tested by powerful strikers in Cro Cop and Yvel? Show me...

The edge I would give Carwin in camps clearly because I guess you are new to MMA...BJJ cant compare or even be the leaast bit effective to good wrestling...Out of 100 fights BJJ over wreslting might win 5 times and thats gonna be Demain Maia...Wrestlers are schooling BJJ...For the edge in a camp yeah I gave it to Carwin....He trains at Grudge but also splits time to at Greg jacksons and trains with them and has the ears from them....

Im comparing it to the Alves Story fight cause its the same thing..Style wise...You have JDS being Alves only without the kicks....Cause JDS is only a boxer for the most part...And Carwin being a good wrestler and striker with power as Story and the same game plan would work...Close the gap because you then give JDS what way to win? IF he cant let his arms go how does JDS win? With BJJ? lol with wrestling lol....

I am saying this carwin is one of the smartest and toughest guys out there...I like JDS only not in this fight....Im taking Carwin by KO..We havent seen JDS hit by someone with power....Why because everyone hes fought had poor game plans...

This is the part where you gotta know how to fight...Taller man with reach you get inside...Carwin is tough and will know this is he stands at arms reach like everyone here thinks he will lose to the cards...



Cro Cop Highlight

Gilbert Yvel Highlight

If that isn't enough proof then I don't know what is. Just because they didn't knock him out doesn't mean they didn't try. According to those highlight videos, both men are deadly strikers, and both went up against Dos Santos. But, Dos Santos was the better fighter and finished them before they could finish him.

What does BJJ and wrestling have to do with their camps? Both camps teach a mixed bag of styles. Black House doesn't just train BJJ, and Jackson's doesn't just train wrestling. As for the BJJ vs. wrestling, it honestly just comes down to the individual fighters. This is MMA, anything can happen in any situation. Perfect example is Chael Sonnen. He's one of the best wrestlers in MMA right now, but he constantly manages to get caught in submissions. There is no set guide to which style will defeat which.


Like I said, JDS vs. Carwin is NOTHING like Alves vs. Story. JDS is the same as Alves except for the kicks? No. JDS centers his striking around his boxing, where Alves centers his around his Muay Thai. Two different styles from two very different fighters. Carwin and Story are similiar, but not by much. Just because Story's gameplan worked on Alves, doesn't mean it will work for Carwin against Dos Santos. If Carwin closes the gap, JDS will use his dirty boxing, mixing clinch uppercuts with to the body, and he's underrated in that aspect. In his fight with Cro Cop the gap was closed on Junior and he had moments where he really hurt Cro Cop in the clinch against the fence.

As for Carwin being a smart fighter, I don't know about that. His gameplans seem to consist of knocking his opponents out in the first round. There has only been one fight that has went past the first round, and we've seen how that ended.

Post #33   5/31/11 3:38:19PM   

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Posted by kingsmasher


Posted by FastKnockout


Posted by kingsmasher

I will gladly be back...I said book it on Alves and Story...If I say book it book it..

Carwin has way more ways to win and the only thing he has to do is grapple and close the distance an Carwin can take a punch...

And btw look at post fight JDS looked way worse than nelso in his face...carwin will beat JDS...



Carwin was rocked by Gonzaga, and he's been the only one to get a clean punch on Carwin's chin. As for ways to win, I disagree with that, too. Carwin can either knock him out or take him to a decision, while JDS can knock him out, decision him, or submit him. Don't forget JDS is a brown belt in BJJ just because he prefers to stand and bang.

Also, injuries to the face doesn't always mean the other fighter won. There are issues like scar tissue to add in. I'm not sure you even watched his fight with Nelson, because if you did you would know Dos Santos completely dominated Nelson in that fight.




You are funny...lol JDS is a brown belt in BJJ...you keep listening to Ed Soares...If you believe JDS has advantage on the ground you havent been watching much BJJ...

reminds me of Soares when he says Aldo is world class on the ground I dont care about his world championship in BJJ...I bet you dont know much about that either.....IN BJJ tourneys most guys who are better in BJJ immediately pull guard...If they cant sub,it and spend the fight on their back they lose...Look at Aldo and Hominick....Aldo didnt look so world class on his back did he?

Look at what happened to Torres last fight...All his transitions do not help in scoring when on your back..You can tell how confident a man is by what he says...JDS is confident in his hands not on his back...Book it!!



Post #34   5/31/11 3:40:49PM   

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Posted by FastKnockout


Posted by kingsmasher


Posted by FastKnockout


Posted by kingsmasher

I just have to say when you look at common opponents and way of winning...heres my opinion..

Too much hype on JDS...Carwin devastated Mir and Mir beat Nelson the same as JDS...JDS in my eyes is on a level of Brendan Schaub but better standup but not much...

I thought Carwin over JDS before but now I am taking out loans on this fight....

And with carwin having the better camp heres how it will go down...

Just like the Rick Story and Alves fight...Carwin is gonna be in JDS face early and fight inside and wham first time you will see JDS get hit by a guy with power..Carwin by TKO...Book it...



I've been on The Playground for a while now, and this by far the dumbest post I've seen yet. No offense. There is so many things wrong with what you said I have to break my reply up into sections.

I'll just mention that MMA math never works, like everyone else has stated. I hope you don't make your picks using it.

How does Dos Santos have too much hype? He's done just as much as any other contender. He didn't hand pick his opponents, and the opponents the UFC did give him he destroyed one way or another. Saying Dos Santos is on the same level as Schaub is just crazy, and if you honestly believe that I wouldn't be able to respect your opinions on MMA. Thinking JDS has slightly better standup then Schaub makes me chuckle. Junior's striking is leaps and bounds ahead of Schaub.

How do you suppose Carwin has the better camp? Do you know where Dos Santos trains? Black House. Silva, Machida, Aldo, The Nog brothers, Souza, etc. I wouldn't give the edge to either camp.

I don't understand why your comparing the Alves/Story fight to Dos Santos carwin? Those are two totally different matchups that have almost nothing in common. If you think Dos Santos and Carwin will fight like Alves and Story, you will be very surprised when they fight happens. I remember fans saying Dos Santos was going to finally be tested by powerful strikers in both the Cro Cop and Yvel fights, and look what happened.




Who ever said JDS was tested by powerful strikers in Cro Cop and Yvel? Show me...

The edge I would give Carwin in camps clearly because I guess you are new to MMA...BJJ cant compare or even be the leaast bit effective to good wrestling...Out of 100 fights BJJ over wreslting might win 5 times and thats gonna be Demain Maia...Wrestlers are schooling BJJ...For the edge in a camp yeah I gave it to Carwin....He trains at Grudge but also splits time to at Greg jacksons and trains with them and has the ears from them....

Im comparing it to the Alves Story fight cause its the same thing..Style wise...You have JDS being Alves only without the kicks....Cause JDS is only a boxer for the most part...And Carwin being a good wrestler and striker with power as Story and the same game plan would work...Close the gap because you then give JDS what way to win? IF he cant let his arms go how does JDS win? With BJJ? lol with wrestling lol....

I am saying this carwin is one of the smartest and toughest guys out there...I like JDS only not in this fight....Im taking Carwin by KO..We havent seen JDS hit by someone with power....Why because everyone hes fought had poor game plans...

This is the part where you gotta know how to fight...Taller man with reach you get inside...Carwin is tough and will know this is he stands at arms reach like everyone here thinks he will lose to the cards...



Cro Cop Highlight

Gilbert Yvel Highlight

If that isn't enough proof then I don't know what is. Just because they didn't knock him out doesn't mean they didn't try. According to those highlight videos, both men are deadly strikers, and both went up against Dos Santos. But, Dos Santos was the better fighter and finished them before they could finish him.

What does BJJ and wrestling have to do with their camps? Both camps teach a mixed bag of styles. Black House doesn't just train BJJ, and Jackson's doesn't just train wrestling. As for the BJJ vs. wrestling, it honestly just comes down to the individual fighters. This is MMA, anything can happen in any situation. Perfect example is Chael Sonnen. He's one of the best wrestlers in MMA right now, but he constantly manages to get caught in submissions. There is no set guide to which style will defeat which.


Like I said, JDS vs. Carwin is NOTHING like Alves vs. Story. JDS is the same as Alves except for the kicks? No. JDS centers his striking around his boxing, where Alves centers his around his Muay Thai. Two different styles from two very different fighters. Carwin and Story are similiar, but not by much. Just because Story's gameplan worked on Alves, doesn't mean it will work for Carwin against Dos Santos. If Carwin closes the gap, JDS will use his dirty boxing, mixing clinch uppercuts with to the body, and he's underrated in that aspect. In his fight with Cro Cop the gap was closed on Junior and he had moments where he really hurt Cro Cop in the clinch against the fence.

As for Carwin being a smart fighter, I don't know about that. His gameplans seem to consist of knocking his opponents out in the first round. There has only been one fight that has went past the first round, and we've seen how that ended.


you do know fighting a heavy striker and getting hit flush buy a heavy striker are different right??

JDS never took a hard hit in his fights with Cro Cop or Yvel. Hes not been tested.


BTW being tested is like what Mir did to Nelson 15+ knees to the head without wobbling when it only took one to KO Cro Cop

Post #35   5/31/11 3:52:26PM   

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The edge I would give Carwin in camps clearly because I guess you are new to MMA...BJJ cant compare or even be the leaast bit effective to good wrestling...Out of 100 fights BJJ over wreslting might win 5 times and thats gonna be Demain Maia...Wrestlers are schooling BJJ...For the edge in a camp yeah I gave it to Carwin....He trains at Grudge but also splits time to at Greg jacksons and trains with them and has the ears from them....



So Maia is the only BJJ guy who can counter wrestling? I disagree. The whole wrestling vs BJJ argument is completely invalid. As FastKnockout stated, this is MMA, and it all comes down to the individual fighter. Same example he gave, Sonnen is probably a top 10 figher in MMA in terms of his wrestling, so by your logic, because he is such a great wrestler, guys like Jacare would be doomed against him. I'm sorry, but your argument is invalid. Mir beat a very powerful Brock lesnar by kneebar when lesnar is an incredible wrestler. You're going to tell me that guys like Roger Gracie and Jacare, and the Nog brothers, etc, are going to lose to all fighters with a wrestling base simply because they are BJJ guys. That is ridiculous imo. Example, Dennis Hallman fought matt hughes 2 times, and in just over a combined 30 seconds, Hallman subbed him twice. By wrestling credentials, Lindland should have destroyed Jacare, but again, wrestling failed miserably against one of the top BJJ guys in the world. I could go on and on and on providing examples against your argument, but again, like fastknockout said, even my doing this is a moot point because it all comes down to the individual, and this is mma, anything can happen.

I personally believe that JDS will either KO or Decision Carwin because of a superior gas tank and believe it or not, probably a better chin. He has taken some solid shots in the UFC, example, his fight with Nelson. Nelson hit JDS with some solid shots, and JDS didn't even flinch, and it's pretty well documented that Nelson is heavy handed. Sure, Carwin probably hits a hell of a lot harder than Nelson, but guess what? I'd be willing to wager that JDS also hits a ton harder than Gonzaga, who happened to rock carwin something fierce in their fight. If Carwin lets JDS connect on his jaw like Gonzaga did then Carwin's brain will start screaming "Game over man! Game over!" imo. I think that JDS has shown a lot more tools and overall well roundedness in his UFC career than Carwin.

Post #36   5/31/11 6:01:30PM   

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As much as I disagree with using MMA Math to pick fights, I don't think everything in the OP's post deserved the scorn it got here.

If Carwin used the exact same gameplan as Story did vs Alves, he might very well be successful, He has excellent top control and had to learn something from gassing vs Brock. Despite being told that JDS has a Brown belt I really want to see him use it. Rashad Evans is a black belt and I wouldn't be overly concerned of him pulling off a sub from his back either.

The color of your belt doesn't mean anywhere near as much to me as how many times you've finished a fight by Submission, JDS has only 1 (via grappling) and it was against a guy who was 2-5 at the time.

All that being said I don't think Carwin will have a whole lot of success taking Dos Santos down, I figure his whole training camp for Brock was centered around staying upright and the change of opponents shouldn't make much of a difference to him.

Really though the deciding factor for me will be whether JDS is studying under Steven Seagal, if he's there for the weigh in's take JDS to win by some sort of flashy kick.

Book it.

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Post #37   5/31/11 8:09:24PM   

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As much as JDS has more skills to win the fight, he actually only needs to get out of the first round in order to win..!!

Post #38   6/5/11 4:44:26PM   

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Sorry..but...


BUMP!

Post #39   6/12/11 12:16:48AM   

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Posted by Coreytron

Sorry..but...


BUMP!



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Post #40   6/12/11 1:48:55AM   

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It was a good fight but it became lack luster in the third round. I was worried about the power of Carwin but it played out closely to what I imagined.

Does anybody feel Herb Dean gave Carwin too much of a leeway when Carwin was taking numerous shots?

Post #41   6/12/11 2:32:13AM   

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Posted by KungFuMaster

It was a good fight but it became lack luster in the third round. I was worried about the power of Carwin but it played out closely to what I imagined.

Does anybody feel Herb Dean gave Carwin too much of a leeway when Carwin was taking numerous shots?





Although I wouldn't have been surprised if it was stopped, I think Herb made the right decision. Carwin did take some un answered shots but he did manage to atleast partially deflect most of them and he was working to improve his position for the most part. Couple that with the fact that there was only about a minute left in the round and I think Herb got the call right. He was obviously able to continue, as he made it to the final bell. It was close to being stopped though, thats for sure.

Big props to both of them. JDS had a great performance and Carwin showed huge heart. I hope this answered some questions about Carwin, he most definitely has a chin and although the fight didn't go his way, he showed much improved stamina, especially when you factor in that his nose was broken in the first and he still made it all three rounds. I'm optimistic to see how he does without the ring rust (not that it played a factor in this fight) JDS is a likeable and respectful guy and should give Cain a solid run for his money, can't wait!

Post #42   6/12/11 4:40:29AM   

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Agreed, although I think it would have been stopped by most refs, Dean is the best in the business. It was funny to see JDS look up at him like, "When are you gonna stop this?"

It was obvious that JDS was much more skilled in every facet, even took Carwin down a couple times. Every time Shane got the TD, JDS popped right back up. He's obviously no slouch on the ground. JDS vs Cain will be a great fight

Post #43   6/12/11 10:31:52AM   
 
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