Pick'em Leagues: THE BIG SHOW CASUAL BEST OF THE REST Single Event PvP: FANTASY POOLS Betting Leagues: THE BIG SHOW BEST OF THE REST

Is Funky Ben Askren a top 10 Welterweight?

Print  
  Page 2 of 2     1     2  
Posted By Message

AchillesHeel

Heavyweight Champ

AchillesHeel Avatar
2

 
 
 


 
 
Posts:3,108
Career:845-448
Joined:Feb 2007
Chips:
603
Here's Ben Askren training with Jake Shields (on YouTube), in advance of Shields' title fight with GSP.

EDIT: It says it was posted on 26 October of last year.

Last edited 4/12/11 9:54AM server time by AchillesHeel
Edit note/reason: n/a

Post #16   4/12/11 9:51:50AM   

postman

Heavyweight Champ

postman Avatar
2

 
 
 


 
 
Posts:6,448
Career:746-420
Joined:Jun 2007
Chips:
1,084

Posted by AchillesHeel

Here's Ben Askren training with Jake Shields (on YouTube), in advance of Shields' title fight with GSP.

EDIT: It says it was posted on 26 October of last year.



Intresting all thats missing is that missle of a jab that GSP owns

Post #17   4/12/11 12:09:52PM   

ncordless

MODulation

ncordless Avatar
12
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:4,857
Career:1,949-1,115
Joined:Apr 2007
Camp: The Ringers
Chips:
1,102

Posted by grappler0000


Posted by ncordless

Speaking of Olympic wrestling, I have always thought that international freestyle rules were really bad for Askren. Freestyle is all about the takedowns, and doesn't include near as much post-takedown action as collegiate, or folkstyle wrestling. Askren's real strength has always been what happens after the takedown, and I am kind of srprised that he was able to compete well enough in the freestyle world to earn an Olympic bid in '08.



Just about every folkstyle wrestler worth his weight in skittles also trains and competes in freestyle. I'm a bit curious why everyone seems to assume that Askren was the exception to the rule.



You misunderstand. It isn't that Askren didn't train freestyle, it is that what he is good at fits within the rules of folkstyle much better than freestyle.

_______________________________________
Flame Not, Lest Ye Be Flamed Yourself.

Post #18   4/12/11 1:10:28PM   

grappler0000

MODular Approach

grappler0000 Avatar
27
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:10,218
Career:3,003-1,643
Joined:Mar 2007
Camp: The Ringers
Chips:
2,507

Posted by ncordless


Posted by grappler0000


Posted by ncordless

Speaking of Olympic wrestling, I have always thought that international freestyle rules were really bad for Askren. Freestyle is all about the takedowns, and doesn't include near as much post-takedown action as collegiate, or folkstyle wrestling. Askren's real strength has always been what happens after the takedown, and I am kind of srprised that he was able to compete well enough in the freestyle world to earn an Olympic bid in '08.



Just about every folkstyle wrestler worth his weight in skittles also trains and competes in freestyle. I'm a bit curious why everyone seems to assume that Askren was the exception to the rule.



You misunderstand. It isn't that Askren didn't train freestyle, it is that what he is good at fits within the rules of folkstyle much better than freestyle.



I see. I saw someone else make a very similar statement recently, so I guess I assumed the sentiment was the same.

Back to the original topic though...I do agree with your statement for the most part. However, I would like to add that from my experience, the guys who were good enough and creative enough on the ground in freestyle, were the ones winning at the higher levels. At a certain level of competition, similar to that of collegiate wrestling, the takedowns are very even. Many times it's so even that riding time makes the difference in those matches. In freestyle, when one guy is able to score exposure points, when the other isn't, it seems to be that same sort of tie breaker. I know what you're saying though. The window of opportunity on the ground is smaller in freestyle, but I think that's why someone who excels on the ground would be able to reap the benefits. Obviously, the objectives and maneuvers vary between the two, so it's hard to make an even comparison...so, while I agree with your assessment, I think the actual ground game "can" be equally important, just for different reasons.

_______________________________________

Post #19   4/12/11 3:05:20PM   

Aether

Heavyweight Champ

Aether Avatar
4



 
 
 


 
 
Posts:5,068
Career:946-505
Joined:Apr 2007
Chips:
1,039
I don't see how you can rank the guy top10 when he hasn't fought anyone anywhere close to being top 10 or even top 20

we've seen a million times that being good at pure wrestling is not the same as being good at wrestling in MMA. Your stance is totally different, you need to worry about getting kicked and punched in the face when you shoot in, and you need some degree of striking ability to be able to set your takedowns up. Look at a guy like Mark Munoz who is a phenomenal wrestler, but when he entered the sport he was pretty much telegraphing takedown attempts by diving in from 5 feet away. He had to develop other aspects of his MMA arsenal before he could really even put his wrestling to use.

I'm not saying that Askren's striking is as bad as Munoz's was (Munoz had some of the worst striking in the UFC when he started out IMO) but the point is that the fact that he's an olympic level wrestler doesn't automatically mean he can wrestle at an olympic level inside of the octagon against someone like GSP who will jab his face into oblivion if he telegraphs any of his takedown attempts.

He's also showing an inability to finish guys who are not exactly known to be iron-jawed. This is a massive disadvantage at the highest levels, as it means that he has to avoid having his striking and submission defense exploited for 15-25 minutes by world-class, well-rounded fighters. It's also worth nothing that Nick Thompson hasn't won a fight in nearly 2 and a half years, has been finished in every single one of his losses, and Askren wasn't able to put him away. I have a really hard time seeing how you can bump his ranking up based on taking a guy who was literally in the last fight of his career at the end of a 2 year losing streak to a decision.

Post #20   4/14/11 9:03:58PM   
 
  Page 2 of 2     1     2