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Dana White Supports Overtime to Take Draws Out of the UFC

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mrsmiley

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Posted by bjj1605


Posted by XblacksheepX

Ok guys, here's my revolutionary plan to reform mma rules to make them fit to the reality of two men/women fighting each other!

First, i don't think an overtime round would change that much. As ncordless said, it also could be scored a 10-10 round. Or even worse, if there's a wrestler involved he takes the guy down and hold's him there for 3 minutes and wins the fight. Takedowns are already way overrated by the judges and nobody would like to watch that. The draw itself isn't that much of a problem, as long as it represents the actual fight that happened. BJ vs. Fitch was infact a draw. Maynard vs. Edgar II was a draw. Also i think machida vs. shogun I was a draw or machida vs. rampage, as several others.

So i, in my humble opinion, would change things the following way:

1.) Educate the effing judges and pay them more for doing a good job/less for a bad job! More ex-fighters should get involved, cause they know what they are talking about. Comissions, go for it! hard!

2.) Takedowns are mostly not able to finish a fight. Striking and subattempts very well can at any time! Stop deciding fights only on takedowns, they are still overrated. And if the guy on top can't pass the guard or isn't able to do some damage on the opponent after a minute, stand them back up!

3.) Implement Doc Hamiltons half point system, which they are testing in amateur bouts right now and encourage judges to score with:

10-10 for an even round means too close round for a clear winner
10-9.5 for a close but admissible round win
10-9 for a decisive round win
10-8 for a dominant round win

This way you might even have more draws especially in 3 round fights.

4.) In case there is a draw, an extra judge uses the japanese mma judging criteria. Score the whole fight with:
a) which fighter was closer to finish the fight (sub or tko)? If that's not possible use
b) fightmetric stats, means who scored more total strikes/sub attempts/takedowns to call the winner

I think this way you get as close as possible to represent the fight. Of course there is still room for bad judging, but that won't change with any rule change, only with better judges.



You know I'm not claiming that he stole the idea from me or anything but I actually came up with the half point system on this forum.

I like some of the suggestions you made though. But the biggest problem is just uneducated judges. We're getting to the point where finishing fights is overrated. Fighter are encouraged by the judges to lay and pray because they favor wrestlers so much. Fighters like Lil Nog, Jeff Curran, and Nate Diaz (basically guys who like to play guard) get screwed because the judges don't understand their game. People are discouraged from having a good guard because it isn't scored. This is an even greater advantage for wrestlers because now not only are they getting preferential scoring, they have nothing to worry about from the guard. Its a vicious cycle that is bringing down the caliber of Jiu Jitsu in MMA.

As to ncordless, statistically the chances of the overtime round being scored 10-10 and the fight still being a draw are much lower. Add to the fact that the judges know that the overtime round is supposed to decide a winner, and I think this solution would do away with draws all together.

It would make PPV timing impossibly hard to plan though, which is my main knock against it.




I do believe a great guard is greatly overrated and has been for years. This is why I hold close to my opinion that Bas vs Randleman was the best decision in UFC history. yes Randleman was on top the whole fight but Big John himself said he didn't break it up because Bas was working from the bottom!

Post #16   4/1/11 7:39:45AM   

SpicyMeatball

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There are three big problems when it comes to MMA judging.

1) The judges are clueless.

2) The judges don't use moniters, which is just insane.

3) The commission won't even admit there's a problem.

Post #17   4/1/11 7:55:32AM   

artofdefense

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IMO, scoring now is fine.

Being a fighter, I may have some insight into why takedowns are scored so highly:

In the real world, if you are on the ground, on the bottom, and you do not finish the fight there, you lost the fight. Period.

Attempts are not worth points, that's like awarding points for missed punches. If there is no finish, you need to give it to the guy with the better position. The better position, is on top.

And I'm not even a wrestling based guy, that's just the way I see it.

Post #18   4/1/11 11:29:54AM   

artofdefense

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Posted by mrsmiley


Posted by bjj1605


Posted by XblacksheepX

Ok guys, here's my revolutionary plan to reform mma rules to make them fit to the reality of two men/women fighting each other!

First, i don't think an overtime round would change that much. As ncordless said, it also could be scored a 10-10 round. Or even worse, if there's a wrestler involved he takes the guy down and hold's him there for 3 minutes and wins the fight. Takedowns are already way overrated by the judges and nobody would like to watch that. The draw itself isn't that much of a problem, as long as it represents the actual fight that happened. BJ vs. Fitch was infact a draw. Maynard vs. Edgar II was a draw. Also i think machida vs. shogun I was a draw or machida vs. rampage, as several others.

So i, in my humble opinion, would change things the following way:

1.) Educate the effing judges and pay them more for doing a good job/less for a bad job! More ex-fighters should get involved, cause they know what they are talking about. Comissions, go for it! hard!

2.) Takedowns are mostly not able to finish a fight. Striking and subattempts very well can at any time! Stop deciding fights only on takedowns, they are still overrated. And if the guy on top can't pass the guard or isn't able to do some damage on the opponent after a minute, stand them back up!

3.) Implement Doc Hamiltons half point system, which they are testing in amateur bouts right now and encourage judges to score with:

10-10 for an even round means too close round for a clear winner
10-9.5 for a close but admissible round win
10-9 for a decisive round win
10-8 for a dominant round win

This way you might even have more draws especially in 3 round fights.

4.) In case there is a draw, an extra judge uses the japanese mma judging criteria. Score the whole fight with:
a) which fighter was closer to finish the fight (sub or tko)? If that's not possible use
b) fightmetric stats, means who scored more total strikes/sub attempts/takedowns to call the winner

I think this way you get as close as possible to represent the fight. Of course there is still room for bad judging, but that won't change with any rule change, only with better judges.



You know I'm not claiming that he stole the idea from me or anything but I actually came up with the half point system on this forum.

I like some of the suggestions you made though. But the biggest problem is just uneducated judges. We're getting to the point where finishing fights is overrated. Fighter are encouraged by the judges to lay and pray because they favor wrestlers so much. Fighters like Lil Nog, Jeff Curran, and Nate Diaz (basically guys who like to play guard) get screwed because the judges don't understand their game. People are discouraged from having a good guard because it isn't scored. This is an even greater advantage for wrestlers because now not only are they getting preferential scoring, they have nothing to worry about from the guard. Its a vicious cycle that is bringing down the caliber of Jiu Jitsu in MMA.

As to ncordless, statistically the chances of the overtime round being scored 10-10 and the fight still being a draw are much lower. Add to the fact that the judges know that the overtime round is supposed to decide a winner, and I think this solution would do away with draws all together.

It would make PPV timing impossibly hard to plan though, which is my main knock against it.




Guard is a losing position unless you finish. Strikes from your back should award little to no points as well.

In what world can you stand up and say you won a fight where you were on your back the entire time, and couldn't finish? Even in BJJ, it's position before submission guys. Dude's need to stand up or sweep.

I do agree ref stad-ups should probably be more frequent when the top fighter is not working.

I do believe a great guard is greatly overrated and has been for years. This is why I hold close to my opinion that Bas vs Randleman was the best decision in UFC history. yes Randleman was on top the whole fight but Big John himself said he didn't break it up because Bas was working from the bottom!

Post #19   4/1/11 12:41:07PM   

bjj1605

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Posted by artofdefense

IMO, scoring now is fine.

Being a fighter, I may have some insight into why takedowns are scored so highly:

In the real world, if you are on the ground, on the bottom, and you do not finish the fight there, you lost the fight. Period.

Attempts are not worth points, that's like awarding points for missed punches. If there is no finish, you need to give it to the guy with the better position. The better position, is on top.

And I'm not even a wrestling based guy, that's just the way I see it.



You take the cake for worst comment in MMAPlayground history, in my humble opinion.

Guard is a neutral position. Neither fighter is winning based on the position. You mentioned position before submission. Guard is one of those positions that you TRY to gain.

You say you're not a wrestler, well you're obviously not a jiu jitsu guy, so I just have to assume you know absolutely nothing about grappling.

The guard and jiu jistu in general are specifically developed for "the real world" as you call it.

Also, your comparison is terrible. Missing punches is nothing like missing submission attempts. Submissions end fights. So do punches, sometimes. Not scoring a submission attempt is more like not scoring punches that land unless they knock the guy out. If I get you in a triangle that makes you stop and defend, even if you get out, I still landed my attempt. I just failed to get the finish.

Its judges that have the same thinking as you that are destroying the sport.

Post #20   4/1/11 4:32:51PM   

artofdefense

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Posted by bjj1605


Posted by artofdefense

IMO, scoring now is fine.

Being a fighter, I may have some insight into why takedowns are scored so highly:

In the real world, if you are on the ground, on the bottom, and you do not finish the fight there, you lost the fight. Period.

Attempts are not worth points, that's like awarding points for missed punches. If there is no finish, you need to give it to the guy with the better position. The better position, is on top.

And I'm not even a wrestling based guy, that's just the way I see it.



You take the cake for worst comment in MMAPlayground history, in my humble opinion.

Guard is a neutral position. Neither fighter is winning based on the position. You mentioned position before submission. Guard is one of those positions that you TRY to gain.

You say you're not a wrestler, well you're obviously not a jiu jitsu guy, so I just have to assume you know absolutely nothing about grappling.

The guard and jiu jistu in general are specifically developed for "the real world" as you call it.

Also, your comparison is terrible. Missing punches is nothing like missing submission attempts. Submissions end fights. So do punches, sometimes. Not scoring a submission attempt is more like not scoring punches that land unless they knock the guy out. If I get you in a triangle that makes you stop and defend, even if you get out, I still landed my attempt. I just failed to get the finish.

Its judges that have the same thinking as you that are destroying the sport.




LOL, something tells me you wear a GI to practice.

You are 1000% correct, in submission grappling Guard is not a dominant position. This is mainly due to the fact that you are not going to get punched in the face, and grappling rules being swayed to favor BJJ.

Guard was actually developed as a competition tactic in Judo (see "trunk squeezing") in order to create a stall. Once action was stalled the bottom man could then begin working newaza (submissions) more effectively. The first guys to do it were a group often called "Kosen" judo people.

In a real limb/life threatening fight being on bottom, and not getting the finish, means you lost. Even if no damage is taken, a bunch of immature assholes are going to be yelling about how you got your ass beat.

MMA is designed to be as close to a real fight as possible, while dissalowing low skill or overly dangerous techniques. See my point?

Also,

I bet I know my grappling, at least well enough to embarass yet another BJJ guy. It's pretty funny when they're all "No twisting leglocks!!!! No Neck Cranks!!! What do you mean the rules are biased!?!?"

Post #21   4/1/11 5:46:20PM   

grappler0000

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Posted by artofdefense

IMO, scoring now is fine.

Being a fighter, I may have some insight into why takedowns are scored so highly:

In the real world, if you are on the ground, on the bottom, and you do not finish the fight there, you lost the fight. Period.

Attempts are not worth points, that's like awarding points for missed punches. If there is no finish, you need to give it to the guy with the better position. The better position, is on top.

And I'm not even a wrestling based guy, that's just the way I see it.



Cecil, is that you?

_______________________________________

Post #22   4/2/11 12:48:44PM   
 
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