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Fight Metric report for BJ Penn vs Jon Fitch draw

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warglory

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Posted by motorboatensob

Everyone on here seems to be forgetting that wining a Dec is the last resort in a fight not your priority. Back when there were no rounds or time limit you had to finish the fight. Fitch never tried to advance his position or any kind of finish and three inch punches sure aren't going to finish BJ Penn. Everyone complains about Brock doing this but when Fitch lays on people its STRAIGY whatever. BJ tried more than once to finish the fight and had Fitch wanted to stand he would have tried there as well. Fitch is very good at what he does he wrestles and that's were he should be wrestling this is MMA and your goal is to finish the fight and any one who says it isn't has never fought. You never leave to the judges and you never leave you opponent the chance to catch you.



Back when there were no rounds, it was a bunch of yahoos throwing at each other haphazardly, or not engaging at all. There's no comparison between the "sport" then and now.

When did BJ try and finish the fight? He had one moment with the rnc, but that lasted what, 15 seconds? Fitch was the better BJJ fighter in this fight, and the better wrestler as shown in round 3. This fight should have had Fitch as the victor, plain and simple.

Post #16   2/27/11 11:52:46AM   

icantthinkofanything

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Rematch needed


bj won rd 1 and 2, he made Fitch bleed, punched and elbowed more... and took Fitch down. dominant position 2 near finishing chokes...



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Last edited 2/27/11 2:25PM server time by icantthinkofanything
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Post #17   2/27/11 12:00:58PM   

RearNakedJoke

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I enjoyed the fight and i agree with the decision. BJ took the first and i could see where the second could go either way. Fitch had the 3rd 10-8 hands down. Everyone raised hell about not seeing 10-8 rounds (Machida/Rampage comes to mind) judges took note and now a dominant round is awarded a 10-8 more frequently. Draws are the end result of that.

I like fight metric but their numbers are misleading when used in a fight that was primarily grappling. Especially when they mass the strikes in round 3 onto the previous 2 and it looks like BJ was dominated for the whole fight which was certainly not the case.

In the end it was a great fight and if they have a rematch i'll watch.

Post #18   2/27/11 12:27:15PM   

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Posted by RearNakedJoke

I enjoyed the fight and i agree with the decision.



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Post #19   2/27/11 1:00:06PM   

warglory

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Posted by icantthinkofanything

Rematch needed


bj won rd 1 and 2, he made Fitch bleed, punched and elbowed more... and took Fitch down. dominant position 2 near finishing chokes...



Im pissed, BJ won bla BLAH BLAH $#$% FREAKIN j%&$&, FBOMB blaa bla freaken a bla bla blah
Im pissed, BJ wonbla BLAH BLAH $#$% FREAKIN j%&$&, FBOMBblaa bla freaken a bla bla blah
Im pissed, BJ won

and 10-8 rounds are the judges way to piss me off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!banghead:


BJ won bla BLAH BLAH $#$% FREAKIN j%&$&, FBOMBblaa bla freaken a bla bla blah
Im pissed, BJ wonbla BLAH BLAH $#$% FREAKIN j%&$&, FBOMB... blaa bla freaken a bla bla blah
Im pissed, BJ won


Fitch should move up to 185, hes not getting a title shot now,



BJ only had one choke attempt which wasn't even close (have you ever seen Fitch fight before?), Fitch took Penn down more times, and Fitch landed way more strikes. I have no clue what fight you watched. And if Fitch moved up to 185, I am fine with that, because I am pretty confident he would be the first to beat Silva.

Last edited 2/27/11 1:26PM server time by warglory
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Post #20   2/27/11 1:21:32PM   

warglory

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Posted by RearNakedJoke

I enjoyed the fight and i agree with the decision. BJ took the first and i could see where the second could go either way. Fitch had the 3rd 10-8 hands down. Everyone raised hell about not seeing 10-8 rounds (Machida/Rampage comes to mind) judges took note and now a dominant round is awarded a 10-8 more frequently. Draws are the end result of that.

I like fight metric but their numbers are misleading when used in a fight that was primarily grappling. Especially when they mass the strikes in round 3 onto the previous 2 and it looks like BJ was dominated for the whole fight which was certainly not the case.

In the end it was a great fight and if they have a rematch i'll watch.



BJ was handled in strikes the second round too technically.

Post #21   2/27/11 1:24:31PM   

RyanC

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Posted by warglory
And if Fitch moved up to 185, I am fine with that, because I am pretty confident he would be the first to beat Silva.



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Post #22   2/27/11 1:34:01PM   

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Ok I've seemed to have sparked some controversy. Let me clarify something that I obviously didn't represent well in my initial post. IN MY OPIONION Fitch should have won the fight. I get the criticism. Yes Fitch neutralizing Penn on the ground is impressive, but it is exactly what everyone expected to happen. The ground work was still boring! Can I appreciate the skill yes...and I tried to state that in my first post, but the leaning against the cage, the body control, and the tiny shots that don't do damage nor create openings are exceedingly boring. Fitch is very talented and really good at what he does, but Fitch will not sell tickets. Somebody mentioned earlier that the guys in the early days of mma were just haphazardly throwing caution to the wind and brawling? I feel like Bas Rutten, Frank Shamrock, Ken Shamrock, and every other pioneer who helped the game evolve would disagree with that statement. Yes there were some Tank Abbotts in the mix, but several of the forefathers of the sport fought in times where the fight had to be finished in order to get the W. All that being said, the scoring issues are horrific. MMA needs to devise a new scoring method that more accurately assesses who won the fight. I appreciate Fitch's modesty and as I've said five times now I appreciate his talent, but the guy is still boring at the end of the day. GSP closes Kos' eye with a jab, neutralizes him on the ground, and takes his lunch money and everybody says, "He can't finish fights!" Well guess what 13 of his 21 wins have come by stoppage and the last on was in January of 09. Fitch hasn't stopped anybody sinse June of 07. Fans get disgruntled with decisions. I understand that it is part of the game, but it shouldn't be so predictable when it comes to any particular fighter. Fitch won the fight imo, but he did it in the most boring way possible. He can be a nice guy, that doesn't make him exciting or marketable.

Post #23   2/27/11 1:36:40PM   

icantthinkofanything

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You think FITCH won round 1 and 2 ? I will agree to disagree, BJ won round 1 and 2 as far as I can tell, and giving Fitch a 10-8 is the only way I score this fight as a draw., I think BJ edged out a decision, but the judges always screw him in my mind, thats why I was soo pissed b4, i have relaxed since than lol

Post #24   2/27/11 1:42:56PM   

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Fitch won it's that simple. I've said it two million times, everyone knows his fighting style. If an opponent doesn't like it then simply stop it, most can't. That's why the man is the number one contender. His fights may be boring, if you don't like grappling, but the fact is he wins. He fights elite competition and except for GSP wins. People need to get over BJ Penn, and they need to get over the "blanket" technique. If there's a rematch do you honestly believe BJ can devise some magical plan to prevent Fitch from implementing his game plan again, simply put no. GSP will beat Shields, vacate his welterweight belt, and move to middleweight. Fitch is your next welterweight champion to the dismay of all the disgusted " He's a boring fighter" people, and to Dana White, who probably doesn't want a champion who the majority of the time get's a decision.

Last edited 2/27/11 2:32PM server time by the_metal_maniac
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Post #25   2/27/11 1:54:48PM   

warglory

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Posted by jlock003

Ok I've seemed to have sparked some controversy. Let me clarify something that I obviously didn't represent well in my initial post. IN MY OPIONION Fitch should have won the fight. I get the criticism. Yes Fitch neutralizing Penn on the ground is impressive, but it is exactly what everyone expected to happen. The ground work was still boring! Can I appreciate the skill yes...and I tried to state that in my first post, but the leaning against the cage, the body control, and the tiny shots that don't do damage nor create openings are exceedingly boring. Fitch is very talented and really good at what he does, but Fitch will not sell tickets. Somebody mentioned earlier that the guys in the early days of mma were just haphazardly throwing caution to the wind and brawling? I feel like Bas Rutten, Frank Shamrock, Ken Shamrock, and every other pioneer who helped the game evolve would disagree with that statement. Yes there were some Tank Abbotts in the mix, but several of the forefathers of the sport fought in times where the fight had to be finished in order to get the W. All that being said, the scoring issues are horrific. MMA needs to devise a new scoring method that more accurately assesses who won the fight. I appreciate Fitch's modesty and as I've said five times now I appreciate his talent, but the guy is still boring at the end of the day. GSP closes Kos' eye with a jab, neutralizes him on the ground, and takes his lunch money and everybody says, "He can't finish fights!" Well guess what 13 of his 21 wins have come by stoppage and the last on was in January of 09. Fitch hasn't stopped anybody sinse June of 07. Fans get disgruntled with decisions. I understand that it is part of the game, but it shouldn't be so predictable when it comes to any particular fighter. Fitch won the fight imo, but he did it in the most boring way possible. He can be a nice guy, that doesn't make him exciting or marketable.



Again, if you don't like wrestling or BJJ, there's no reason why you should watch MMA, and there's no pleasant way to sugar coat that. This fight was classic wrestling vs BJJ, with both guys jockeying on the ground. The cage work was only a portion of the fight, and there was a lot going on in that fight with wrist control and inside striking which again, is a big part of MMA.

The old days of the UFC were not as glorious as everyone makes them out to be. Those days were dominated by wrestlers who controlled on the ground without much striking. The actual strikers were mostly brawlers, including the strikers that were considered good, and very few of those early KO's were pretty or technical. It wasn't until Vitor Belfort, Chuck Liddell , Andrei Arlovski and a few others came along that striking really started to become a viable alternative to grappling.

You mentioned three guys, and only two of those guys put on relatively entertaining fights, and really, in terms of the UFC, Bas and Frank were rarities, and the only real one of the bunch who truly showed a good striking base was Bas, and even that was very brief (Bas was busted up at that point in his career, which showed in his fight with Randleman which was a REAL snoozefest).

Post #26   2/27/11 2:35:21PM   

quezocrema0032

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I personally had the bout scored a draw, I am a die hard penn fan so it was rough seeing a 10 8 third round. I feel like for everyone saying Fitch got robbed is being byes, for once the judges didn't reward him for stalling and that is why Penn won the 2nd round. In the 2nd Fitch scored a take down that penn later negated by scoring one of his own, The difference was that penn did something with his take down and advanced to his back which is a dominant position. On top of that he caused damage with blooding Fitch's nose and all Fitch did was hold him down for the last min of the 2nd round. You tell me who deserves the round a guy with 1 take down and holds a guy down for 1/5th of the round, or a guy who scored a take down advanced to the back and also damaged his nose. It was nice to see judges not rewarding someone stalling. Penn clearly won the first and the 3rd was a 10-8.

Post #27   2/27/11 2:39:00PM   

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I thought a draw made sense. To me, BJ won the first 10-9, the 2nd was a 10-10, and Fitch obviously won the third. Its hard to say when a fighter deserves a 10-8, it seems like the fighter has to be very close to finishing the fight to earn a 10-8. To me, Penn never seemed rocked in the third, so I gave Fitch the round 10-9. Fitch did more damage, but under the 10-point must system I thought a draw was fair. I don't know **** though, I'm just a fan.

Last edited 2/27/11 3:29PM server time by jay98107
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Post #28   2/27/11 3:24:14PM   

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Just FYI, I've seen a couple guys echo this sentiment, but... Fitch won that goddamn fight. What did BJ do that wasn't negated or reversed by Fitch? He had one good standing strike from clinch range that drew blood from Fitch's nose.

Look at it if it were a street fight. If there were no ref there, it wouldn't have mattered for Fitch because he escaped every position of danger. BJ was never close to finishing the fight. Just because he attempted a submission doesn't mean sh!t. If I throw a punch at your jaw and it misses, did I almost finish the fight? It could've knocked you out had it... Actually landed.... See my point?

If there were no ref Jon Fitch would be on top of BJ Penn right now punching his fu#king face in.

Post #29   2/27/11 3:45:51PM   

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I will comment on the fight and then I will comment on Fitch's style.

the first round went to bj the 3rd round went to fitch, I don't think a 10-8 round involves someone almost being finished in my opinion bj did not do enough to earn 9, that is why he only got 8 he had as much offense as a punching bag in that final frame. I had it scored 10-8 myself if bj could have gotten up, threatened with a submission, threw some strikes from the bottom i would say 10-9. first round was penn, second rd was penn but the reversal at the end did have some good action from fitch, it could have gone either way, I personally thought it went to fitch but maybe that's because he was winning more towards the end of the round, probably should have been a 10-10 round which we don't see enough of

Bj didn't win the fight, no way. I thought Fitch won, but a draw is understandable.

Fitch is boring, he does one thing, yes, and he does it very well, but he is refusing to evolve and until he does so it is hard to make a case for him to headline a card against GSP, yes he has 13 wins in the ufc but only 4 of those guys are still in the ufc. it is one thing to win by decision, but like someone said earlier, look at GSP he wins by decision but he is close to finishing he shows good striking good submission attempts and good gnp. fitch wins the same way everytime which is his job but it shows me he hasn't made improvements, and based upon the beating he took in his title fight he needs to prove he has made DRASTIC changes. koscheck and gsp 1 was a close fight but koscheck came back and had knockouts and submissions that is why he got his rematch. fitch was never close and he has shown nothing that says he will be any closer

Post #30   2/27/11 3:48:31PM   
 
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