Nick Diaz Talks Point Fighting - "They Play a Game to Win" |
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FastKnockout
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 515-312
Season: 6-5 (#1518)
Location: Mississippi
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"(Nate Diaz) is a lot better than that guy (Dong Hyun Kim). You could see it in that fight. (Nate) won on damage. At the end of that fight, that guy was real banged up, you know? Taking some hard shots to the eye, to the face. My brother hadn't taken any shots."
"I used to come in running in a lot, and getting overly aggressive. You get that way, because you (get caught up in trying to) win on damage. You're fighting a different fight. One guy's trying to win the round, one guy's trying to win the fight."
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Post #1 1/8/11 11:04:56PM
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MODesty
Career record: 978-518
Season: 9-2 (#290)
Location: Oklahoma
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How about just learning better TDD. Both Nick and Nate have problems with fighters who have solid wrestling and BJJ defense. In fact most of Nick's fights since leaving the UFC have been against fighters that would stand with him or have poor take downs.
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Telnights
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Post #2 1/9/11 12:41:35AM
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bjj1605
MMA Sensei
Career record: 877-536
Season: 8-3 (#1010)
Location: Chicago
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Posted by telnights
How about just learning better TDD. Both Nick and Nate have problems with fighters who have solid wrestling and BJJ defense. In fact most of Nick's fights since leaving the UFC have been against fighters that would stand with him or have poor take downs.
I agree they are great and exciting fighters but they would both be better of "playing the game."
Recklessly trying to finish fights and ignoring wrestling won't get you a title in the UFC. They're scrappy but stubborn.
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Post #3 1/9/11 1:12:43AM
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sbulldavid
MMA Sensei
Career record: 822-487
Season: 9-2 (#226)
Location:
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They might not get you a belt, but the guys putting on good fights and winning more than losing are getting paid better than a lot of fighters.
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Post #4 1/9/11 2:13:42AM
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Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 965-532
Season: 8-3 (#371)
Location: Coon Rapids, Minnesota
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Nick is right for the most part. Like he said, this is not Pride, so if you're on your back but causing most of the damage and being active, most times you will lose the fight. How often have we seen a fighter win a fight of his back in the UFC? I know he wasn't bitching about it but if the Diaz brothers realize the current judging in their respected orginizations, then fix that hole in their game until if and when the Pride way of judging occurs.
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Billy Madison-
What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in the playground is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no props, and may the mods have mercy on your soul.
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Post #5 1/9/11 8:41:45AM
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isk
Standup Guy
Career record: 0-0
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Texas
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The Diaz brothers are tough and talented, but if they maintain this attitude they'll never be the best in the world.
This happens a lot with BJJ-centric guys who can take a punch. They feel like they can stand and box with anyone, and if it hits the floor that they'll be crafty enough to lock in a sub. It's a macho attitude that gives fights to position-oriented opponents.
Kim has much room for improvement, primarily in his cardio and then in his standup. But every time the Diaz brothers lose, one or both of them point the finger at the other guy instead of discussing what they could do better. Obviously their improvement over the years shows they can learn and adapt to a degree, but I think that has more to do with their coaches than their own attitudes.
If nothing else their quotes get a little attention, and there's certainly a career in that (look at all the Baroni fans crying over his recent cut from the UFC). But if that's the mindset you carry around with you all the time, you'll lose to strong wrestlers you should've beaten.
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Post #6 1/9/11 9:45:12AM
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prozacnation1978
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 981-518
Season: 8-3 (#371)
Location: san diego
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I gotta agree their are some fighters who don't try to go for the finish and will
Settle trying to eek out a decision
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Post #7 1/9/11 10:25:46AM
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icantthinkofanything
Belt Contender
Career record: 588-414
Season: 10-1 (#73)
Location: between hell and hells kitchen
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Im glad im not a judge, but judges usually score the guy on top winning.
Last edited 1/9/11 3:07PM by icantthinkofanything
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #8 1/9/11 11:43:11AM
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Makaveli158
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 300-243
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Ohio
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People talk about Kim being "in control" but Kim wasn't in control. Kim was on top, But being on top does not mean being in control.
Kim was on top, trying to pass gaurd, and being stuffed by Diaz all night long. Failed transition attempts are no different than failed takedown attempts in my opinion.
Also notice how Kim had -wrist control- for much of the time on the ground. Wrist control is a defensive maneuver!!! How was Kim "in control" on the ground when Diaz had Kim in defensive-mode the whole time?????
Diaz was working off his back with a few sub attempts and even striking off his back. You could argue that striking from your back is ineffective striking I suppose..... But it was enough to put Kim on the defense wasn't it??? Again, I state that being on top does not mean you are in control, and this match is a perfect example of that. DIAZ exerted HIS OWN CONTROL off of his back with his jitsu. Kim was on top and wasn't even striking!!!! He had one good highlight strike off the thick of Nates forehead that didn't even phase or stun or hurt Nate.
And in my opinion, Nate won on the feet everytime they stood.
In my opinion, it's clear that either a.) judges are unable to recognize when someone is winning a fight off of their back/// they think being on top means you're winning or b.) the way judges score is biased towards wrestling and against bjj
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Post #9 1/9/11 2:23:18PM
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MODesty
Career record: 978-518
Season: 9-2 (#290)
Location: Oklahoma
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The fact is they know the way fighters are scored, its not like they went in to the fight wondering how it would be scored. We hear the same BS from the Diaz brothers every time they loss to a wrestler.
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Telnights
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Post #10 1/9/11 5:41:50PM
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BlueSkiesBurn
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 490-347
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location:
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Nick, let me give you some friendly advice. You may have heard this before, but just in case I want to remind you.
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Post #11 1/9/11 5:46:54PM
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pmoney
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 514-301
Season: 9-2 (#23)
Location: PD, CA, USA
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No one has ever finished the Diaz brothers in the UFC. All of their losses are decisions, usually won by wrestlers who don't want to stand with them and don't want to get submitted, so they just lay and pray
I admit that if you can't stop it, it's your own fault. However, this is Mixed Martial Arts. You are supposed to be fighting, not out-wrestling someone. You don't win a fight with grappling, you win a wrestling match.
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Post #12 1/9/11 8:22:21PM
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MODesty
Career record: 978-518
Season: 9-2 (#290)
Location: Oklahoma
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There are somethings some people aren't taking in to account. Like most fighters know the Diaz brothers struggle with solid wrestlers and are almost content just fighting off their back. So are you going to play to their game or your game. It would be stupid to not attack the other fighters weakness. The lack of wrestling is the very reason they will never truly be talked about as THE BEST in whatever weight class they fight in. I will say I think with solid wrestling skills Nick good be a true top P4P fighter. Now is it just stubbornness or die hard loyalty to Cesar Gracie, I really don't know. But I do think either way it has hurt them in the big picture of things.
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Telnights
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Post #13 1/10/11 4:26:39AM
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SURPRISE VAN CANDY!
Career record: 930-482
Season: 7-4 (#896)
Location: Seattle, WA
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If they could wrestle we would've seen scrambles instead of Gomi-plata's and middle-finger-Triangles!
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If I was 50 years younger I'd kick your ass!
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Post #14 1/10/11 4:55:35AM
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mattjonesy
Standup Guy
Career record: 951-557
Season: 8-3 (#667)
Location: South Wales , UK
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Im not a huge fan of the Diaz brothers but I love watching the guys fight.
I totally agree with Nick not only did stun gun do no damage whatsoever he completly gassed out in the last round and was hanging on praying for the end of the round.
Theres so many aspects to MMA its really difficult to figure out whos winning a technical fight on the ground its comes down to a matter of opinion and 9 times out 10 the judges will pick the guy whos laying on top.
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Post #15 1/10/11 10:47:21AM
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