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Don Frye Says Brock Lesnar Is An "Embarrassment" And UFC "Hand Picked" His Opponents

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State_Champ

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If Don Frye and his mustache disapprove, who am I to disagree.
I am officially not a Lesnar fan due to Don Frye's persuasiveness.

Post #16   11/19/10 10:40:19AM   

pmoney

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Don Frye will always have cred in my book, but this statement is amazing. Look at the physical specimen that Brock Lesnar represents. His UFC debut, his second fight where he was 1-0, was against former UFC Champ Frank Mir. First of all, no one these days has there UFC debut with a 1-0 record, and if they do, it's not against the former champ.....

If anything I would say Velasquez was getting the hand picked opponents. Put Lesnar in instead of Kongo, Lesnar wins that fight, at that time, in my opinion. The only difference between the two is that Lesnar never improved his stand up game, even though it was clear from the beginning that he needed to. It was clear in the Couture fight he needed to up his skills.

If Couture were 10 years younger he might have whooped Lesnar. And Carwin, he doesn't have much in the way of skill, he's just another physically imposing man-beast, and he ran in to someone his size who could take his punches (again, barely, and if Carwin had technique it would've probably been over.)

He's like Matt Hammill, he is a top tier wrestler who has needed to improve his striking for years and yet never has, lord know why. Velasquez was actually able to advance his skills and get himself to the point he is at now, with a skill set that's very solid with the ability to dominate in the wrestling area, and good kickboxing skills.

Don't write Velasquez off vs. Dos Santos......

Post #17   11/19/10 10:53:58AM   

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Posted by State_Champ

If Don Frye and his mustache disapprove, who am I to disagree.
I am officially not a Lesnar fan due to Don Frye's persuasiveness.



Post #18   11/19/10 11:18:20AM   

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I think this is absolutely absurd. Brock was immediately thrown to the wolves and he always, in my mind, fought the #1 contender. I don't think this guy really knows what he's talking about. Herring, Couture, Mir, Carwin and Velasquez are all huge names if you consider where Brock Lesnar was as a fighter in each one of them.

Post #19   11/19/10 1:02:37PM   

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Posted by warglory

Why is it that people give Don Frye so much credit? If any other fighter made these comments, everyone would be up in arms, but we seem to always give Don Frye a pass. The man is ridiculous.



When you have a piece of treasured facial hair such as Frye you can say anything you please my friend.

Post #20   11/19/10 2:07:10PM   

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Posted by RyanC


Posted by FlashyG


Posted by RyanC

I would disagree to the extent that I don't think Shane Carwin was hand picked. Carwin should've been the one to smash Brock, but he gassed, and Brock capitalized. Other than that I completely agree. Frank Mir twice, Heath Herring, and Randy Couture. No disrespect to any of them, but Brock had a strength and size advantage in all of those fights, and none of them were going to punch Brock in the mouth the way his last two opponents did. They gave him opponents that would allow him to use his wrestling, and give him a very, very good chance for a win.



I don't know how anyone could say ANY of Brocks opponents were handpicked. Its also pretty clear that Brock has a strength and size advantage over pretty much everyone in the HW division.

As for his opponents

Couture was the title holder!?! Should he have said no thanks Dana, I'll pass on the title shot, I'm really looking for more of a challenge? thats the craziest thing i've ever heard.

Mir was the former HW champion of the world and at the time the best grappler in the UFC HW division. It was Lesnar's second fight, I'd hate to see who you and Frye thought he should have been fighting as a UFC debut.

Herring was the "easiest" fight he had in the UFC and even that isn't much of a handpicked assignment for a 1-1 fighter.




The first Mir fight I thought Lesnar had his work cut out for him, but the second time I thought he would win. Athletically Mir was at a distinct disadvantage. The first time Mir was able to outsmart him, and use his ground skills. I don't disagree at all with what you're saying about Couture, but Lesnar probably outweighed him by 60 pounds. They were barely in the same weight division. I still think Herring was meant as a sacraficial offering to get Lesnar a win that meant something since he is/was experienced, and very tough. But let's face it Lesnar's wrestling skills, size, and athleticism gave him a huge advantage.

I'm not calling Brock a chump, and I'm not saying his opponents were not extremely tough, but none of them were the type of fighter that was really going to put the pressure on him with their striking, and make him have to respond to that aspect of their game. They all had gameplans, and styles that played right into the strengths of Brock Lesnar. Now that he's faced a couple of guys that have punched him in the mouth we've seen that he folds under the pressure.

When I really think about it I don't think there was any top level guys with that kind of skillset for him to face at the time, so he really was facing the best they had. I just think the guys he faced early on played very nicely into his game which allowed him to succeed.



]
He folds under pressure??? Shane uses his face for a punching bag and Brock comes out in the 2nd round and chokes him out. Sounds like fo;ding to me. Cain pounds him and the fights stopped. That's MMA. I guess Big Nog folds under pressure, his last 3 fights he's been dropped twice. Oh boy, Fedor beong submitted, what a bum.

For a guy who had no experience to beat Heath, Randy and Mir, he did very well

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Post #21   11/19/10 3:37:47PM   

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Posted by zephead
He folds under pressure??? Shane uses his face for a punching bag and Brock comes out in the 2nd round and chokes him out. Sounds like fo;ding to me. Cain pounds him and the fights stopped. That's MMA. I guess Big Nog folds under pressure, his last 3 fights he's been dropped twice. Oh boy, Fedor beong submitted, what a bum.

For a guy who had no experience to beat Heath, Randy and Mir, he did very well



I guess I'm not explaining myself very well. What I guess I should have said instead of folds under pressure is that when he gets punched he doesn't exactly know how to respond. He doesn't handle it that well. I know he came back in the second round of the Carwin fight and won which was definitely overcoming adversity, but when he was under pressure in the first he essentially just turtled. Against Cain he basically turned and ran when Cain started landing punches.

I'm not saying Brocks a bum, nor am I saying he did not do very well against his first 3 opponents. I'm saying his first 3 opponents were very well suited to his particular strengths and I think that played a part in his 3 victories. Had he faced 3 guys like Shane Carwin I don't think his record would be so good.

I dunno if that's any better of an explanation, but I guess it's the best I can do.

Post #22   11/19/10 4:20:05PM   

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i agree. bas rutten said it best, he needs to spend more time getting punched in the face in practice. there is no reason for a heavyweight champ in the ufc to to be so susceptible to punches like that. it wasnt like he was over whelmed by the crazy punching power of carwin or valasquez but it seemed to me he looked like he didnt know what to do when the shots landed. he's probably the biggest baddest guy in his gym so he never gets beat up on like he should be. he probably dominates everybody in the gym so all his trainers and partners say hes the baddest dude on the planet. forrest griffin said one time that if your the baddest dude in your gym that means you need to find a new gym where people are better than you because if you dont you will never get any better. lesnar might not find a gym where people are bigger than him but he will definitely find gyms that people are much better strikers than him.

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Post #23   11/19/10 4:59:27PM   

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Frye is nuts, lol Brock took on the top contenders. I love Don Frye but his off big time. If Frye thinks that then Dana should set him up with "Hand Picked" Carwin vs. Frye,

Last edited 11/19/10 5:47PM server time by thecatfather
Edit note/reason: typo

Post #24   11/19/10 5:45:31PM   

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Posted by RyanC


Posted by zephead
He folds under pressure??? Shane uses his face for a punching bag and Brock comes out in the 2nd round and chokes him out. Sounds like fo;ding to me. Cain pounds him and the fights stopped. That's MMA. I guess Big Nog folds under pressure, his last 3 fights he's been dropped twice. Oh boy, Fedor beong submitted, what a bum.

For a guy who had no experience to beat Heath, Randy and Mir, he did very well



I guess I'm not explaining myself very well. What I guess I should have said instead of folds under pressure is that when he gets punched he doesn't exactly know how to respond. He doesn't handle it that well. I know he came back in the second round of the Carwin fight and won which was definitely overcoming adversity, but when he was under pressure in the first he essentially just turtled. Against Cain he basically turned and ran when Cain started landing punches.

I'm not saying Brocks a bum, nor am I saying he did not do very well against his first 3 opponents. I'm saying his first 3 opponents were very well suited to his particular strengths and I think that played a part in his 3 victories. Had he faced 3 guys like Shane Carwin I don't think his record would be so good.

I dunno if that's any better of an explanation, but I guess it's the best I can do.



I can understand what you're saying with this post. My thing is, when someone like Shane or Cain (I'm a poet and didn't know it) start blasting you in the face, there's not much you can do but turtle. Ask Big Nog about Cains punching power. Ask Bas how you train to get hit in the face with 4oz. gloves by people with the punching power of a Shane or Cain. If that's how you're gonna train, your career won't last long.

There's a game plan until someone punches you in the face, then it all goes out the window. You revert back to what comes natural. Brock is a wrestler, who is learning MMA, so he goes back to what his natural to him. He needs experience. Overcoming the Shane fight will go a long way for him. He's still slow on his feet in the striking game, but it will come to him.

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Post #25   11/19/10 6:04:42PM   

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I get all the criticism I really do, but all of the haters please tell me: Who is going to beat him? I realize Cain beat that ass, and I was the guy screaming that lesnar was going to hold him down and beat him up, but who else is going to beat the guy? Who else would you have him fight? JDS maybe? JDS gassed against Nelson and I promise Brock would be a whole new level of endurance for JDS. IMO that is exactly how Cain is going to break Dos Santos is by taking him into the later rounds and just pushing the pace like always. Who beats Brock outside of Cain? Mir, Carwin, Cro Cop, Shab???? Who? I'm really not tryin to be a nut hugger, I'm just saying that you can't teach that kind of size and power, and those are the reason that the guy can still be dominant.

Post #26   11/19/10 6:30:01PM   

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Posted by zephead

I can understand what you're saying with this post. My thing is, when someone like Shane or Cain (I'm a poet and didn't know it) start blasting you in the face, there's not much you can do but turtle. Ask Big Nog about Cains punching power. Ask Bas how you train to get hit in the face with 4oz. gloves by people with the punching power of a Shane or Cain. If that's how you're gonna train, your career won't last long.

There's a game plan until someone punches you in the face, then it all goes out the window. You revert back to what comes natural. Brock is a wrestler, who is learning MMA, so he goes back to what his natural to him. He needs experience. Overcoming the Shane fight will go a long way for him. He's still slow on his feet in the striking game, but it will come to him.



I completely agree with you. He just needs a lot of time working on his standup. He needs to be in the gym seeing punches coming at him. Even if it's with 14 oz gloves on. If it was me in his shoes I'd be spending a ton of time working nothing but muay thai and boxing. He doesn't need to work on his wrestling. BJJ is another story I guess cause I really can't say if he needs to work on that or not, but his striking, and striking defense so far has been his achilles heal.

I'm not a fan of Brock, but it's good for the sport if he improves, and continues to fight, so I hope he is able to do it. I'll always watch every fight he's in because to me it'll always be interesting no matter the outcome.

Post #27   11/19/10 6:35:34PM   

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Posted by jlock003

I get all the criticism I really do, but all of the haters please tell me: Who is going to beat him? I realize Cain beat that ass, and I was the guy screaming that lesnar was going to hold him down and beat him up, but who else is going to beat the guy? Who else would you have him fight? JDS maybe? JDS gassed against Nelson and I promise Brock would be a whole new level of endurance for JDS. IMO that is exactly how Cain is going to break Dos Santos is by taking him into the later rounds and just pushing the pace like always. Who beats Brock outside of Cain? Mir, Carwin, Cro Cop, Shab???? Who? I'm really not tryin to be a nut hugger, I'm just saying that you can't teach that kind of size and power, and those are the reason that the guy can still be dominant.



I think in a rematch Carwin beats him. Carwin has the size, wrestling ability, and, CERTAINLY, the striking power.

I know that Carwin lost the first time, but I think the second fight goes much like the first, but with Carwin picking more timely shots rather than flurrying.

Outside of Velasquez and Carwin, I can't see anyone beating him.

Post #28   11/19/10 6:40:39PM   

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Posted by BlueSkiesBurn


Posted by jlock003

I get all the criticism I really do, but all of the haters please tell me: Who is going to beat him? I realize Cain beat that ass, and I was the guy screaming that lesnar was going to hold him down and beat him up, but who else is going to beat the guy? Who else would you have him fight? JDS maybe? JDS gassed against Nelson and I promise Brock would be a whole new level of endurance for JDS. IMO that is exactly how Cain is going to break Dos Santos is by taking him into the later rounds and just pushing the pace like always. Who beats Brock outside of Cain? Mir, Carwin, Cro Cop, Shab???? Who? I'm really not tryin to be a nut hugger, I'm just saying that you can't teach that kind of size and power, and those are the reason that the guy can still be dominant.



I think in a rematch Carwin beats him. Carwin has the size, wrestling ability, and, CERTAINLY, the striking power.

I know that Carwin lost the first time, but I think the second fight goes much like the first, but with Carwin picking more timely shots rather than flurrying.

Outside of Velasquez and Carwin, I can't see anyone beating him.



I actually agree. My point isn't that I think he would beat either Carwin again or Cain in a rematch, but it is to say that Brock is an animal and that I can't see too many guys in the HW division throughout mma beating him. Yes I do think that some buys can beat him, but if the guys figures out how to fix the issues that have been discussed in this forum, then man it's going to be difficult for anybody to beat him. Even if he doesn't fix those issues then he will still be a force to deal with.

Post #29   11/19/10 6:46:41PM   

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Posted by jlock003

I actually agree. My point isn't that I think he would beat either Carwin again or Cain in a rematch, but it is to say that Brock is an animal and that I can't see too many guys in the HW division throughout mma beating him. Yes I do think that some buys can beat him, but if the guys figures out how to fix the issues that have been discussed in this forum, then man it's going to be difficult for anybody to beat him. Even if he doesn't fix those issues then he will still be a force to deal with.



He's an endurance nightmare, for sure. I've already stated that I see him steamrolling Dos Santos. I think his biggest threats are Velasquez and Carwin. I wouldn't mind seeing rematches of either, to be honest. I like watching Lesnar fight. I LOVED watching Velasquez beat that ass, but I have no beef with Lesnar.

Post #30   11/19/10 7:01:12PM   
 
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