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Is Herschel Walker An Embarrassment To MMA?

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I really wish he would just train for the love of the sport....he doesn't need to fight, let alone fight in front of large audiences.

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Post #16   11/17/10 1:47:06PM   

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Posted by BlueSkiesBurn


Posted by hate4thestate


It's not that I care if he is on the card or not it is when "real" fighters are pushed to the undercard that makes me mad. Riggs vs Heiron for example. I'd mich rather see established fighters fight then a Jose Canseco or Herschel Walker.



Junior Dos Santos was an unestablished fighter when he stepped in to take on Fabricio Werdum at UFC 90.

Brock Lesnar was certainly an unestablished fighter when he took on Frank Mir at UFC 81.

I'm not saying that Walker will become the next Strikeforce HW champ, but you never know.




Oh come on, let's not compare as 47 year old former football player to a former national wrestling champion and a 26 year old

Post #17   11/17/10 5:44:37PM   

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Posted by jay98107


Oh come on, let's not compare as 47 year old former football player to a former national wrestling champion and a 26 year old



So, because Walker's old he shouldn't compete? Never mind that he's a 5th degree black belt and competed in the Winter Olympics and nearly made the summer games. Nice logic. I wasn't aware that there was an age limit.

Post #18   11/17/10 6:40:13PM   

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Thats a 5th Degree Black Belt in tae kwon do. Competed in the winter Olympics in bobsledding? lol Are you serious?

Post #19   11/17/10 10:03:03PM   

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Posted by Gannon

Thats a 5th Degree Black Belt in tae kwon do. Competed in the winter Olympics in bobsledding? lol Are you serious?



It's still a martial art. I'm aware that he competed in bobsledding, he was also a gnat's c*ck away from making the summer games for sprinting. So let me get this straight, you're saying that a Heisman trophy winner, 11 year NFL vet, Winter Olympian, almost summer Olympian, wakes up every morning and does 2000 push-ups, 2000 sit-ups, and runs 2-3 miles, and a 5th degree black belt in TKD can't try his hand at MMA?

He's like a black Dos Equis "Most Interesting Man In The World." Any athlete that's accomplished as much as he has can try whatever they want without being called an embarrassment. I'm sorry you feel otherwise. I don't think ANYONE on this playground has accomplished 1/1000th of what he's accomplished. If they have, they can tell him "he shouldn't try MMA and take up a name spot."

Post #20   11/17/10 10:12:38PM   

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I'd love to fight Herschel Walker, but they'd probably never give me that fight because they only want to give him the wins. I think sometimes Strikeforce they build up these guys like Herschel Walker, like the last fight I saw him in, he fought a guy that was 1-1 and he just looked bad. I just thought he looked really bad, and his hands were so stiff and I just thought if I gave him one good overhand right, he would just go down. I saw his fight and it was embarrassing.


I don't think the quote here is calling Walker an embarrassment to MMA. It's taking issue with Strikeforce, an apparently reputable and top-tier MMA promotion, for pushing a fighter that is nearly 50 and lacks serious skill.

If Herschel Walker wants to fight, he should seek a fight. If Strikeforce wants to be acknowledged as a rival to the UFC based on the competitors they keep, they should have passed on him.

Post #21   11/17/10 10:33:32PM   

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Posted by lohmann

I don't think the quote here is calling Walker an embarrassment to MMA. It's taking issue with Strikeforce, an apparently reputable and top-tier MMA promotion, for pushing a fighter that is nearly 50 and lacks serious skill.

If Herschel Walker wants to fight, he should seek a fight. If Strikeforce wants to be acknowledged as a rival to the UFC based on the competitors they keep, they should have passed on him.



Because Brock Lesnar wasn't the same thing when the UFC signed him? He hadn't actually competitively wrestled in 10 years. He's showing serious holes in every other facet of his game as the competition gets steeper.

I guess I'm failing to see the difference between Lesnar and Walker. Age? That's a B.S. reason. Walker is probably more fit at 47 than most fighters in their late 20's-30's.

Like I said, they're not thrusting him in the cage with top-tier competition and their fights are free, assuming you have Showtime. If you were paying for it, I could understand, but you're not, so popular opinion is going to prevail. People are going to want to see someone like Walker fight. I'm not saying that their aren't better fights out there, I'm just saying the guy won't have an extremely long career, let him have a couple of fights on TV. Like someone prior to me said, he donates the money to charity.

Post #22   11/17/10 10:42:55PM   

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Posted by BlueSkiesBurn


Posted by hate4thestate


It's not that I care if he is on the card or not it is when "real" fighters are pushed to the undercard that makes me mad. Riggs vs Heiron for example. I'd mich rather see established fighters fight then a Jose Canseco or Herschel Walker.



Junior Dos Santos was an unestablished fighter when he stepped in to take on Fabricio Werdum at UFC 90.

Brock Lesnar was certainly an unestablished fighter when he took on Frank Mir at UFC 81.

I'm not saying that Walker will become the next Strikeforce HW champ, but you never know.




O really??? Dos Santos had never faught before UFC 90? Even Brock had one fight elsewhere before coming into the UFC. Honestly this isnt about Brock but i will say i didnt agree with how that was handled either.

Hersechel Walker was 0-0 when he came into strikeforce and his fight pushed Hieron and Riggs to the undercard. Nothing against Walker here but thats just not right. Its bad for the dudes who have been working their way up and dont get a shot to fight on tv.

I think Walker is a good dude but i think strikeforce went about this the wrong way.

Post #23   11/18/10 12:34:30AM   

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Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

Because Brock Lesnar wasn't the same thing when the UFC signed him? He hadn't actually competitively wrestled in 10 years. He's showing serious holes in every other facet of his game as the competition gets steeper.

I guess I'm failing to see the difference between Lesnar and Walker. Age? That's a B.S. reason. Walker is probably more fit at 47 than most fighters in their late 20's-30's.



Walker has never competitively wrestled nor had a single fight in the sport before being put on a Strikeforce broadcast. His first exposure to an MMA training camp was a twelve-week stint in AKA. There's a huge difference between having a highly successful collegiate wrestling background, even if it was ten years ago, and being a football player with a twelve-week crash course on MMA preceding your first fight in a major promotion. This isn't a double standard.

On Lesnar specifically, I seriously doubt he would have maintained a spot in the UFC if he looked anything less than impressive in his first few fights. Instead, he nearly crippled Mir (before being submitted), dominated a veteran like Heath Herring, and endured enough before finding the opening to finish Couture en route to winning the sport's premier heavyweight championship. Dana White did not exploit a former fake wrestling star's fame but instead allowed Lesnar to legitimize himself through a series of fights with top-shelf talent.


Like I said, they're not thrusting him in the cage with top-tier competition and their fights are free, assuming you have Showtime. If you were paying for it, I could understand, but you're not, so popular opinion is going to prevail. People are going to want to see someone like Walker fight. I'm not saying that their aren't better fights out there, I'm just saying the guy won't have an extremely long career, let him have a couple of fights on TV. Like someone prior to me said, he donates the money to charity.


I have no problem with Herschel Walker fighting. There's a niche for those sort of fights in MMA. I do have a problem with Herschel Walker fighting for Strikeforce; Scott Coker and company seemingly want to be perceived as a rival to the UFC in talent. The idea of putting on a fight with a famous and aged ex-football player, however naturally gifted and extremely athletic he may be, instead attracts a media expecting to see and exploit the most sideshow dynamics of MMA.

Strikeforce wants to make a buck on Dave Bautista.

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Post #24   11/18/10 12:45:11AM   

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Posted by hate4thestate

O really??? Dos Santos had never faught before UFC 90? Even Brock had one fight elsewhere before coming into the UFC. Honestly this isnt about Brock but i will say i didnt agree with how that was handled either.

Hersechel Walker was 0-0 when he came into strikeforce and his fight pushed Hieron and Riggs to the undercard. Nothing against Walker here but thats just not right. Its bad for the dudes who have been working their way up and dont get a shot to fight on tv.

I think Walker is a good dude but i think strikeforce went about this the wrong way.



I never said Dos Santos hadn't fought. I said he was "unestablished." He'd only fought 6 times and two of those against the same guy. Never fought out of Brazil.

Brock had a complete joke of a fight against Min-Soo who was 2-5 at the time he took the fight. He's since compiled a record of 3-7. REAL tough test for Lesnar there. I think we can say that Greg Nagy was about as tough of a test as Min-Soo.

Brock fighting Min-Soo was like Homer fighting Drederick Tatum.



I understand that Hieron and Riggs have worked their way up, but you're acting like Walker has fought 15 times and replaced serious fighters every time. He doesn't fight that often and he donates the money to charity. If he loses, I'm sure they won't give him another fight and, if they do, they won't air it.

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Post #25   11/18/10 12:47:24AM   

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Posted by lohmann


Walker has never competitively wrestled nor had a single fight in the sport before being put on a Strikeforce broadcast. His first exposure to an MMA training camp was a twelve-week stint in AKA. There's a huge difference between having a highly successful collegiate wrestling background, even if it was ten years ago, and being a football player with a twelve-week crash course on MMA preceding your first fight in a major promotion. This isn't a double standard.

On Lesnar specifically, I seriously doubt he would have maintained a spot in the UFC if he looked anything less than impressive in his first few fights. Instead, he nearly crippled Mir (before being submitted), dominated a veteran like Heath Herring, and endured enough before finding the opening to finish Couture en route to winning the sport's premier heavyweight championship. Dana White did not exploit a former fake wrestling star's fame but instead allowed Lesnar to legitimatize himself through a series of fights with top-shelf talent.



10 years is still ten years. He also flopped in his NFL try out. The Vikings cut him citing an inability to grasp the concepts of the position and a failure to understand what it took to compete at a high level.

What's the difference between Strikeforce giving Walker a shot and, as you put it, "allowing him to legitimize himself," and Dana allowing Brock to do the same? Also, you imply that Lesnar had anything more than wrestling to offer. Walker has a martial art to offer as well. I'm confused by this. So all of a sudden we're saying that Lesnar is worth it because he was a legitimate college wrestler a decade ago, but Walker isn't worth it because he "didn't compete" in TKD even though he's actively been training in it his entire career?



I have no problem with Herschel Walker fighting. There's a niche for those sort of fights in MMA. I do have a problem with Herschel Walker fighting for Strikeforce; Scott Coker and company seemingly want to be perceived as a rival to the UFC in talent. The idea of putting on a fight with a famous and aged ex-football player, however naturally gifted and extremely athletic he may be, instead attracts a media expecting to see and exploit the most sideshow dynamics of MMA.

Strikeforce wants to make a buck on Dave Bautista.



Bautista is a FAR CRY from Walker. He's a body builder and entertainer. Walker is an elite athlete. To compare the two is like comparing apples to chemically enhanced oranges. Bautista has already tested positive for steroids. Walker obtained his fame with a stellar work ethic that might only be rivaled by Jerry Rice. Maybe Walter Payton. Even then, I'd still say that Walker is an extraordinary athlete who ought to be afforded the opportunity to fight and see what he can do.

In my book, a 1-0 Lesnar co-headlining a PPV is no different than giving Walker, an accomplished athlete in his own right, an under-card spot on a FREE Showtime fight. Everyone is looking at this with hindsight, saying "well look what Lesnar accomplished." Even you, lohmann. You're bringing up his successes AFTER the fact instead of looking at the simple fact that neither men were proven at the time they were afforded the opportunity to fight in front of the world.

Of course hindsight is 20/20. Give me Biff's sports almanac and I can tell you who wins the next 6 BCS championships.

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Post #26   11/18/10 1:08:53AM   

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Blueskies, your hatred of Brock is clouding your usually sound judgement. NFL tryouts, Bobsledding, you might as well of been arguing he'd beat him at checkers too.

You try to compare their MMA careers but its impossible to do so because other than his first fight Brock has faced nothing but top notch competition, to follow your logic Walker should be fighting a former champ next shouldn't he?

I'd consider having even a mediocre background in wrestling more valuable than any Taekwondo belt regardless of color. That being said Brock was much more than a mediocre wrestler.

If you want to see what happens when an untested Taekwondo fighter takes on an experienced fighter look up Jeremy Bullock.

I don't think anyone is saying Walker shouldn't fight but by putting him on the main card in his debut against a complete can Strikeforce really distanced itself from the UFC. Not in a good way either. The fact that they are still babying him for his second fight shows how big of an embarrassment they are to MMA, not so much Walker himself.

Post #27   11/18/10 1:41:26AM   

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Posted by FlashyG

Blueskies, your hatred of Brock is clouding your usually sound judgement. NFL tryouts, Bobsledding, you might as well of been arguing he'd beat him at checkers too.

You try to compare their MMA careers but its impossible to do so because other than his first fight Brock has faced nothing but top notch competition, to follow your logic Walker should be fighting a former champ next shouldn't he?

I'd consider having even a mediocre background in wrestling more valuable than any Taekwondo belt regardless of color. That being said Brock was much more than a mediocre wrestler.

If you want to see what happens when an untested Taekwondo fighter takes on an experienced fighter look up Jeremy Bullock.

I don't think anyone is saying Walker shouldn't fight but by putting him on the main card in his debut against a complete can Strikeforce really distanced itself from the UFC. Not in a good way either. The fact that they are still babying him for his second fight shows how big of an embarrassment they are to MMA, not so much Walker himself.



I don't hate Brock, first off. Itt's beyond frustrating that people seem to think that I am.

My point of contention here is that people are focusing on Brock now rather than Brock at the time he was afforded his opportunity to fight within the UFC. Brock was 1-0 against a nobody and Walker made his debut against a 1-2 opponent. I don't think I'm grasping at straws here when I say that neither one of them had proven anything in the world of MMA.

It seems that people want to place a premium on Brock's wrestling and discount Walkers TKD. Fine, Brock had competitive experience in the collegiate world...10 YEARS AGO. If you don't honestly believe that the world of collegiate wrestling AND MMA wrestling has changed in 10 years then I have some ocean front property here in Bakersfield that I'd like to sell you.

I seem to remember a bunch of people on this playground in an upheaval over Lesnar being afforded the opportunity to co-headline a main event at a UFC event after ONE professional fight. Now, it seems, that people are knocking Walker for the same thing without allowing him the same opportunity that Lesnar was given.

Walker, most likely, will never be in my "top ten" of MMA fighters. I'm not advocating that Walker should headline. I am, however, saying that people seem to be fickle about who can, in their minds, and cannot, fight on a main card.

I bring up Walker's accomplishments because it illustrates that he's succeeded in EVERYTHING that he's tried. Not, as you say, to point out that "he could beat Brock in checkers." Walker has been an elite athlete in EVERY sport in which he's given his all. Brock has tried his hand at the very same sport that Walker tried his hand at and wound up not even making the practice squad.

My point here is this; I'm not advocating Walker CONTINUOUSLY receiving spots, unless he keeps winning. I am saying, though, that Walker, isn't hogging an ENORMOUS amount of space on these Strikeforce cards, like most are making it seem like he has. He's had one fight.

BTW, Walker is 15x the athlete that Bullock could EVER dream of being so that's a poor comparison.

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Post #28   11/18/10 2:59:50AM   

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Looks like the website that posted Berry's comments took his comments and expounded on them for their headline. Berry didn't say what the headline implies as was pointed out earlier. He said:

"he just looked bad. I just thought he looked really bad, and his hands were so stiff and I just thought if I gave him one good overhand right, he would just go down. I saw his fight and it was embarrassing."

Getting over that no one is calling him 'an embarrassment to MMA'; I can understand how some fans want to see another fight on the main card instead, but not how some "fans" think he shouldn't be fighting at all. If someone wants to test themselves, they should.

Regarding time-slot though, this has been happening since MMA became televised. "Names" get on main cards above fighters who have proven more in the cage/ring/etc. For the promotion, it's a business decision. There's no need to scrutinize a fighter or fighters over it. They don't pick their time-slot. Even though a lot of us hardcore fans want to see, let's say, a WW scrap that was bumped to the under-card, there are absolutely more people out there who will flip to the broadcast just to see Herschel Walker. The reason being is we're already watching the card regardless if it's Herschel or the bout we want to see instead.. The people who will watch just for Herschel Walker because they saw it on espn.com and yahoosports.com, etc. wouldn't be watching otherwise.

Doesn't mean under-card fighters or hardcore fans will like it on the main card but it makes business sense, and sense make dollars. Now if he's losing, or the fighter's they match him up with aren't testing him for multiple fights then there's a reason to disagree with Strikeforce's matchmaking and/or time-blocking, but it's fight #2, he's pulling in some new viewers, and Scott Carson IS a step up in competition.

I'll trade the few minutes of looking for a prelim fight the next day for more MMA fans. Who knows; maybe they tune in to the card solely for that fight and end up becoming lifelong fans of the sport?

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Post #29   11/18/10 3:39:41AM   

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Posted by Kpro

Looks like the website that posted Berry's comments took his comments and expounded on them for their headline. Berry didn't say what the headline implies as was pointed out earlier. He said:

"he just looked bad. I just thought he looked really bad, and his hands were so stiff and I just thought if I gave him one good overhand right, he would just go down. I saw his fight and it was embarrassing."

Getting over that no one is calling him 'an embarrassment to MMA'; I can understand how some fans want to see another fight on the main card instead, but not how some "fans" think he shouldn't be fighting at all. If someone wants to test themselves, they should.

Regarding time-slot though, this has been happening since MMA became televised. "Names" get on main cards above fighters who have proven more in the cage/ring/etc. For the promotion, it's a business decision. There's no need to scrutinize a fighter or fighters over it. They don't pick their time-slot. Even though a lot of us hardcore fans want to see, let's say, a WW scrap that was bumped to the under-card, there are absolutely more people out there who will flip to the broadcast just to see Herschel Walker. The reason being is we're already watching the card regardless if it's Herschel or the bout we want to see instead.. The people who will watch just for Herschel Walker because they saw it on espn.com and yahoosports.com, etc. wouldn't be watching otherwise.

Doesn't mean under-card fighters or hardcore fans will like it on the main card but it makes business sense, and sense make dollars. Now if he's losing, or the fighter's they match him up with aren't testing him for multiple fights then there's a reason to disagree with Strikeforce's matchmaking and/or time-blocking, but it's fight #2, he's pulling in some new viewers, and Scott Carson IS a step up in competition.

I'll trade the few minutes of looking for a prelim fight the next day for more MMA fans. Who knows; maybe they tune in to the card solely for that fight and end up becoming lifelong fans of the sport?



God bless you and your post

Post #30   11/18/10 3:45:25AM   
 
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