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If you think Jose Aldo is pound-for-pound king, Dana White thinks you're (expletive) nuts

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"Are you (expletive) nuts? [Aldo is] POTENTIAL FUTURE pound for pound king. Anderson Silva hasn't lost since 2006! He's never lost in the UFC! ... Anderson Silva is a pain in my ass. This isn't Chuck Liddell, we aren't best friends. But you can't deny what the man has done. He (Silva) HASNT LOST in the UFC! The guy has not only cleared out his division, he's gone up to 205 and beaten a guy like Forrest Griffin, who beat Rampage Jackson AND Shogun Rua. And Frankie Edgar is right there too. I might actually put him at No. 2. This guy is for real. He beat BJ Penn twice, and kicked his ass in their last fight. I love and respect Manny Gamburyan, but he's no BJ Penn. And the only thing keeping GSP out of the top 3 is (a KO loss) to Matt Serra."

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Post #1   10/5/10 10:40:06AM   

Twenty20Dollars

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I might be nuts

Post #2   10/5/10 11:46:17AM   

gartface

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Posted by Twenty20Dollars

I might be nuts



Might want to admit me to the psyche ward as well.

Post #3   10/5/10 11:47:57AM   

tallica62

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looks like I'm insanely nuts too then

Post #4   10/5/10 11:51:20AM   

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Dana, F the loss to Matt Serra. GSP is #1 p4p. No one else has shown as much dominance even though yes, he did get clipped once. And I dislike GSP as a fighter. Still, in every single fight of the past few years outside of Matt Serra #1 where he got clipped on the mastoid (would knock just about anybody loose) he has gone out there and absolutely dominated his opponents. And most importantly, he has implemented his will upon them through force. Not through dancing. Though it has been done in the limelight for less time, the same can be said of Jose Aldo.

Anderson Silva has a lot of W's and not a lot of L's, but some context needs to be taken when looking at those stats. Silva got beat up in the first part of his fight against Henderson. Silva didn't fight against Leites and Cote. Those were dance-offs. Then, in his third dance-off Silva got beat up in the last part by Maia. For damn sure Silva got his ass handed to him 99.5% of the time by Sonnen. Roids or not.

Did roids help Leben when he fought Bisping? Nope.
Did roids help Franca when he fought Sherk? Nope. (Granted Sherk was on roids, too haha but trust me.. most are anyways)
Did roids help Dewees when he lost to Noguiera? Nope.
Did roids help baby Fedor when he lost to Buentello? Nope.



Fun fact: Of the aforementioned fighters who were accused of steroid use after fights, 11 were successful in those fights, while 19 were unsuccessful. So, the jury’s still out in that whole “competitive advantage” thing…

Post #5   10/5/10 12:01:47PM   

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Posted by Jackelope

Dana, F the loss to Matt Serra. GSP is #1 p4p. No one else has shown as much dominance even though yes, he did get clipped once. And I dislike GSP as a fighter. Still, in every single fight of the past few years outside of Matt Serra #1 where he got clipped on the mastoid (would knock just about anybody loose) he has gone out there and absolutely dominated his opponents. And most importantly, he has implemented his will upon them through force. Not through dancing. Though it has been done in the limelight for less time, the same can be said of Jose Aldo.

Anderson Silva has a lot of W's and not a lot of L's, but some context needs to be taken when looking at those stats. Silva got beat up in the first part of his fight against Henderson. Silva didn't fight against Leites and Cote. Those were dance-offs. Then, in his third dance-off Silva got beat up in the last part by Maia. For damn sure Silva got his ass handed to him 99.5% of the time by Sonnen. Roids or not.

Did roids help Leben when he fought Bisping? Nope.
Did roids help Franca when he fought Sherk? Nope. (Granted Sherk was on roids, too haha but trust me.. most are anyways)
Did roids help Dewees when he lost to Noguiera? Nope.
Did roids help baby Fedor when he lost to Buentello? Nope.


<a href="http://www.cagepotato.com/mma-steroid-busts-definitive-timeline " target="_blank" rel="nofollow">

Fun fact: Of the aforementioned fighters who were accused of steroid use after fights, 11 were successful in those fights, while 19 were unsuccessful. So, the jury’s still out in that whole “competitive advantage” thing…
</a>

Why should I trust you when you assert that most guys are on steroids? Any hard evidence? Would most guys include your beloved GSP?

Post #6   10/5/10 12:08:00PM   

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Posted by Giant_Ochai

Why should I trust you when you assert that most guys are on steroids? Any hard evidence? Would most guys include your beloved GSP?



First of all- I even said in the comment that I dislike GSP ... so

Second of all- yes, I would say it includes him though I have no presentable proof of this outside of my own knowledge on the subject

Third of all- Nothing to rely on except good old common sense and my own experiences working with top fighters for several years.

Let me pose this question to you-

Steroid busts by year:
’02: 1
’03: 1
’04: 1
’05: 1
’06: 4
’07: 14 (!)
’08: 5
’09: 4
'10: 1

Now-

is it more likely that in 2007 something like the earth's slight change in rotational axis caused a massive spike in steroid use

OR

Clearly there's a problem with testing and people are slipping through the cracks


You see, I come from several backgrounds whether competing in sports or certain professions in which steroid use is illegal and tested for on a regular basis. (Random, controlled and observed drug tests conducted at least every 2 months) However, in both situations- these sports and professions -a physical, competitive advantage is a good thing to have and more importantly injury rehab is just a part of the job. Since I've been part of the culture I've also made friends with plenty of users and have even at one point in my past been a user myself. There are plenty of people using who get by. So yes, I ask you to trust in that experience and my good standing as an honest poster to believe me. Is it really so much to ask? Or is it just that logic is so offensive to the ears (/eyes in this case).

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Post #7   10/5/10 12:19:19PM   

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Posted by Jackelope

Dana, F the loss to Matt Serra. GSP is #1 p4p. No one else has shown as much dominance even though yes, he did get clipped once. And I dislike GSP as a fighter. Still, in every single fight of the past few years outside of Matt Serra #1 where he got clipped on the mastoid (would knock just about anybody loose) he has gone out there and absolutely dominated his opponents. And most importantly, he has implemented his will upon them through force. Not through dancing. Though it has been done in the limelight for less time, the same can be said of Jose Aldo.

Anderson Silva has a lot of W's and not a lot of L's, but some context needs to be taken when looking at those stats. Silva got beat up in the first part of his figaht against Henderson. Silva didn't fight against Leites and Cote. Those were dance-offs. Then, in his third dance-off Silva got beat up in the last part by Maia. For damn sure Silva got his ass handed to him 99.5% of the time by Sonnen. Roids or not.

Did roids help Leben when he fought Bisping? Nope.
Did roids help Franca when he fought Sherk? Nope. (Granted Sherk was on roids, too haha but trust me.. most are anyways)
Did roids help Dewees when he lost to Noguiera? Nope.
Did roids help baby Fedor when he lost to Buentello? Nope.


<a href="http://www.cagepotato.com/mma-steroid-busts-definitive-timeline " target="_blank" rel="nofollow">

Fun fact: Of the aforementioned fighters who were accused of steroid use after fights, 11 were successful in those fights, while 19 were unsuccessful. So, the jury’s still out in that whole “competitive advantage” thing…
</a>



ahhhhh Silva finishes fights GSP hasn't lately and in those fights that went to a dec. those fighters(leites,maia) wouldn't engage him standing if they wanted to fight Silva on the ground take him down! so yeah it wasn't Silvas fault as for the cote fight Silva was winning and cote just seemed content surviving past the 2nd rd Silva is the p4p best! as for Aldo time will tell

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He's been known to cure narcalepsy by just walking into a room. His orgin donation card list his beard. He is a lover not a fighter but he's also a fighter so don't get any idea's he is SpiderSilva I'm the baddest man alive

Post #8   10/5/10 1:45:46PM   

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Posted by SpiderSilva

ahhhhh Silva finishes fights GSP hasn't lately and in those fights that went to a dec. those fighters(leites,maia) wouldn't engage him standing if they wanted to fight Silva on the ground take him down! so yeah it wasn't Silvas fault as for the cote fight Silva was winning and cote just seemed content surviving past the 2nd rd Silva is the p4p best! as for Aldo time will tell



People can justify Silva's wins however they feel the need to. I'm sure I'm justifying certain things how I need to. However, that being said I do try to look at things as objectively as possible and I think when you look at quality of competition and dominance that right now there is no argument that holds its water better than GSP as #1 p4p. I don't know if someone with Silva in their name and as their avatar can objectively view a situation the same way.

In years past I defended Fedor as #1 p4p at the time but times have changed as they always will. I'm willing to admit when a fighter has taken that crown legitimately instead of holding on for dear life to a fighter I love. I think if you can look at the situation objectively like that you will see that for right now GSP is #1 p4p. Anderson Silva has left many things to be desired in his last 4 title fights from my recollection. I just don't think you can rationally justify calling someone who does that #1 p4p.

Post #9   10/5/10 3:32:40PM   

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#1 GSP show me his holes.
#2 Anderson elite wretlers with good cardio and sub defense have a chance is that guy out there I don't know.
#3 Aldo give it time he will be #1
#4 Fedor damn that triangle.

Post #10   10/5/10 3:59:24PM   

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Posted by postman

#1 GSP show me his holes.



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Post #11   10/5/10 4:16:23PM   

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Dana White makes a lot of sense.

Anderson Silva has cleaned out his division and knocked former LHW champion Forrest Griffin into beatdown infamy while not losing a single fight during his UFC run. Almost none of his fights are easy, and he's willing to fight anybody the UFC puts in front of him (at least once).

When he loses, he won't be the P4P king anymore.


Posted by Jackelope

Dana, F the loss to Matt Serra. GSP is #1 p4p. No one else has shown as much dominance even though yes, he did get clipped once. And I dislike GSP as a fighter. Still, in every single fight of the past few years outside of Matt Serra #1 where he got clipped on the mastoid (would knock just about anybody loose) he has gone out there and absolutely dominated his opponents. And most importantly, he has implemented his will upon them through force. Not through dancing. Though it has been done in the limelight for less time, the same can be said of Jose Aldo.

Anderson Silva has a lot of W's and not a lot of L's, but some context needs to be taken when looking at those stats. Silva got beat up in the first part of his fight against Henderson. Silva didn't fight against Leites and Cote. Those were dance-offs. Then, in his third dance-off Silva got beat up in the last part by Maia. For damn sure Silva got his ass handed to him 99.5% of the time by Sonnen. Roids or not.



The difference here is that GSP lost and Anderson Silva was able to find a way to win against any opponents that threatened him or put him into trouble.

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Post #12   10/5/10 5:14:23PM   

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Posted by lohmann

The difference here is that GSP lost and Anderson Silva was able to find a way to win against any opponents that threatened him or put him into trouble.



I concede to that argument's relevance since it is the only logical way a person can justify putting Anderson Silva in front of GSP IMO. I still rank GSP higher due to numerous other factors including the ones listed herein, but I can definitely at least see this side of the argument.

Most notably I tend to value sustained dominance over an opponent as greater than getting clipped. For instance- GSP getting clipped and eventually KO'd within the span of a few seconds vs. Silva getting beat on for 4.5 rds. To me one shows that somebody threw a good shot (which is inevitable with 4 oz gloves) and the other shows that somebody had a fighter's style and weaknesses figured out.

Granted the rib injury throws questions into things, but you could say the same thing for GSP's groin injury vs. Alves. Which didn't stop him from continuing dominance on Alves.

But again- I want to show that I'm a logical person by admitting that yes, you do have a point with your original argument

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Post #13   10/5/10 6:48:00PM   

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Posted by emfleek


Posted by postman

#1 GSP show me his holes.






I typed that out and I thought no I better change it then I was like lets see who ribbs me first lol well done Bravo Fleek

Post #14   10/5/10 7:49:16PM   

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Posted by Jackelope


Posted by lohmann

The difference here is that GSP lost and Anderson Silva was able to find a way to win against any opponents that threatened him or put him into trouble.



I concede to that argument's relevance since it is the only logical way a person can justify putting Anderson Silva in front of GSP IMO. I still rank GSP higher due to numerous other factors including the ones listed herein, but I can definitely at least see this side of the argument.

Most notably I tend to value sustained dominance over an opponent as greater than getting clipped. For instance- GSP getting clipped and eventually KO'd within the span of a few seconds vs. Silva getting beat on for 4.5 rds. To me one shows that somebody threw a good shot (which is inevitable with 4 oz gloves) and the other shows that somebody had a fighter's style and weaknesses figured out.

Granted the rib injury throws questions into things, but you could say the same thing for GSP's groin injury vs. Alves. Which didn't stop him from continuing dominance on Alves.

But again- I want to show that I'm a logical person by admitting that yes, you do have a point with your original argument



I think that Silva is clearly the Number 1 P4P. You really can't argue with the stats. Anderson Silva is 12-0. GSP is 14-2. Anderson is 8-0 in title fights with wins in a higher weight class. GSP is 7-2 in title fights (one being an interim fight) and has never won a fight at a higher weight class in the UFC. Anderson has 6 finishes in his eight wins. GSP has only four out of his 7. Those fights GSP has finished have been a lot less devastating than Anderson's. Anderson knocks people out and submits them. His only lackluster finish was against Cote. GSP has a corner stoppage over Penn and a knees-to-the-body finish over Serra. Niether was anything outside of what we see GSP do every time, take downs and control with limited gnp and conservative sub attempts.

Dana had me on the silva argument. But he lost me at Frankie Edgar. I think Edgar PROBABLY deserves to be in the top ten, but top 5 is ridiculous. I doubt he'll be there for long anyway because Gray Maynard is taking his belt.

Aldo deserves to be up there for the same reason Anderson should be higher ranked than GSP. Dominance. Both Anderson and Aldo are vicious finishers, GSP is not.

Post #15   10/5/10 8:09:54PM   
 
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