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Team Fedor Emelianenko Lays Out NEW UFC Contract Demands

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jlock003

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Wow! Cold War talks ont he playground LOL. I'd argue if I had any point to make but I'll stick to the mma conversation before I get Chuck Lidelled in a conversation about history. (Chuck is still my favorite fighter btw...just keeps gettin ktfo). Here is my major question b/c I really thought this was true. Isn't Fedor only under contract to M-1 for one more fight as well? Doesn't his Management agreement with them end after his last SF fight? If so then M-1 is simply trying to squeez the last bit of money they can out of their cash cow before he takes off. Now I didn't quote it but somebody mentioned boxing co-promoting all the time. Here is a little trivia for you...was Ali vs. Frazier co-promoted? Was Lenord vs. Duran co-promoted??? Matter of fact before the Tyson days (which I understand the majority of mma fans are products of the Tyson age I am) is there another major boxing fight in history where you see such drastic co-promotion? Boxing today has some amazing fighters. Everybody know about Mayweather and Pacman, but those guys are not the only talented boxers out there. There are tons. The problem is none of them get the time of day because the sport is dead. If you weren't famous in boxing 10 years ago you never will be. Promoters and co-promotion killed the sport. It's a travesty. Here is another thing when the UFC agreed to co-promote with PRIDE it was a different time. PRIDE in Nov. of 2003 was way bigger than the UFC. The Ultimate Fighter hadn't even aired yet. Zuffa didn't even purchase that company until January of 01, and yet it was a good move on PRIDE's part too and it panned out to be an excellent move for them when Rampage won. I see no reason for the UFC to make that move at all toward M-1. Somebody tell me what all shows M-1 puts on? How about the viewing numbers? Does anybody realize that more people watched the Penn/Edgar replay on Spike than did Fedor's last fight???! Not saying that's good I certainly watched Fedor, but it speaks volumes about why the UFC doesn't need M-1 for anything short of somebody to contract out janitorial work to. SF and Dream co-promotions are great, but look at that now...Aoki want to fight Melendez in Japan...does anybody think SF is ready for that??? The answer is no. It's never going to happen so I'm really really hoping that this is Fedor's last fight with M-1 and we can see the guy fight the best. Here's to hoping!

Post #31   7/12/10 7:59:13PM   

machodog76

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Posted by Jackelope


Posted by machodog76


Posted by BigIP

As a fan I hope this gets done. I can't believe all the people on here who are defending the UFC's monopolistic practices. Boxing cross promotes as well as other MMA orgs. People forget that Dana allowed Chuck to fight in the Pride Middleweight Grand Prix.

Pride screwed them on that one. The UFC was supposed to get Wanderlei in return (remember, "I want to f**k Chuck")? I think that is why you will never see the UFC cross-promote again. I also think it's better to for the fans have one organization as the premiere league since you have one mach maker with no overt ties to any fighter, as opposed to 2 orgs & 2 sets of management teams both of whom represent their fighters interests instead of just trying to make the most exciting matchups the fans want to see. But I can't say I don't love how it's working for Dream and Strikeforce.



I think a better explanation would be that Chuck losing to Rampage is what screwed that whole deal up. Dana banked everything on Chuck winning in that deal.

Did that happen before or after the UFC announcement that wanderlei would be fighting chuck? I know Dana has said in past inerviews that the deal was for the Liddel Silva fight to take place as a fighter exchange sort of thing but Pride just wanted to get some free advertising and never had any intention of lending them Wanderlei. Dana's version is that the UFC was cheated, of course he is a little biased.

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Post #32   7/12/10 8:34:20PM   

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Posted by machodog76

Did that happen before or after the UFC announcement that wanderlei would be fighting chuck? I know Dana has said in past inerviews that the deal was for the Liddel Silva fight to take place as a fighter exchange sort of thing but Pride just wanted to get some free advertising and never had any intention of lending them Wanderlei. Dana's version is that the UFC was cheated, of course he is a little biased.



To my understanding Dana did get burned a little bit on that deal with PRIDE... I'm not sure of all the details... but I do remember that there was something along the lines of a 200k bet Chuck would win the tourney. Some people say when Chuck lost to Rampage that Dana reneged on the deal and this caused major beef, and others say that the deal was always that Chuck would beat Wandy if they met in the finals and therefore the bet didn't count and so Dana didn't do anything wrong by not paying up on the bet. Who really knows?

Supposedly, and if I remember correctly, the other part of the deal was that PRIDE would send fighters over to the UFC after Zuffa sent some of theirs. There are this and that theory behind why PRIDE never sent their own fighters, but nobody knows for sure besides those who were involved. It's a complicated mess and when you're dealing with fight promoters I don't think anybody ever reveals all of the details.

That's why I said Rampage beating Chuck was a huge part of it and a better explanation. Because that's the only story we know for sure because we saw it play out and heard Dana's voice during the matches confirming the bet. I think that really threw a wrench in his whole game plan and is what kind of forced him to walk out of Japan with his head hung low. I would imagine something like this doesn't seem like a big deal to us in the U.S., but I'm not sure in Japan it isn't.

Post #33   7/12/10 9:02:45PM   

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Posted by Jackelope


Posted by machodog76

Did that happen before or after the UFC announcement that wanderlei would be fighting chuck? I know Dana has said in past inerviews that the deal was for the Liddel Silva fight to take place as a fighter exchange sort of thing but Pride just wanted to get some free advertising and never had any intention of lending them Wanderlei. Dana's version is that the UFC was cheated, of course he is a little biased.



To my understanding Dana did get burned a little bit on that deal with PRIDE... I'm not sure of all the details... but I do remember that there was something along the lines of a 200k bet Chuck would win the tourney. Some people say when Chuck lost to Rampage that Dana reneged on the deal and this caused major beef, and others say that the deal was always that Chuck would beat Wandy if they met in the finals and therefore the bet didn't count and so Dana didn't do anything wrong by not paying up on the bet. Who really knows?

Supposedly, and if I remember correctly, the other part of the deal was that PRIDE would send fighters over to the UFC after Zuffa sent some of theirs. There are this and that theory behind why PRIDE never sent their own fighters, but nobody knows for sure besides those who were involved. It's a complicated mess and when you're dealing with fight promoters I don't think anybody ever reveals all of the details.

That's why I said Rampage beating Chuck was a huge part of it and a better explanation. Because that's the only story we know for sure because we saw it play out and heard Dana's voice during the matches confirming the bet. I think that really threw a wrench in his whole game plan and is what kind of forced him to walk out of Japan with his head hung low. I would imagine something like this doesn't seem like a big deal to us in the U.S., but I'm not sure in Japan it isn't.

Wow! Interesting, I didn't know about the bet, I didn't have internet access at the time and it was kind of hard to keep up with. Thanks for the info! Too bad it didn;t work out who knows what Dana's outlook would be now if it had.

Post #34   7/12/10 10:02:42PM   

icantthinkofanything

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Fedor should be able to wear an m-1 t shirt
but he is not worth as much as he used to be.
i totally agree that the UFC should never co promote, if fighters make their own companies everyone will too

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Post #35   7/12/10 10:24:07PM   

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Posted by Jackelope


Posted by machodog76

Did that happen before or after the UFC announcement that wanderlei would be fighting chuck? I know Dana has said in past inerviews that the deal was for the Liddel Silva fight to take place as a fighter exchange sort of thing but Pride just wanted to get some free advertising and never had any intention of lending them Wanderlei. Dana's version is that the UFC was cheated, of course he is a little biased.



To my understanding Dana did get burned a little bit on that deal with PRIDE... I'm not sure of all the details... but I do remember that there was something along the lines of a 200k bet Chuck would win the tourney. Some people say when Chuck lost to Rampage that Dana reneged on the deal and this caused major beef, and others say that the deal was always that Chuck would beat Wandy if they met in the finals and therefore the bet didn't count and so Dana didn't do anything wrong by not paying up on the bet. Who really knows?

Supposedly, and if I remember correctly, the other part of the deal was that PRIDE would send fighters over to the UFC after Zuffa sent some of theirs. There are this and that theory behind why PRIDE never sent their own fighters, but nobody knows for sure besides those who were involved. It's a complicated mess and when you're dealing with fight promoters I don't think anybody ever reveals all of the details.

That's why I said Rampage beating Chuck was a huge part of it and a better explanation. Because that's the only story we know for sure because we saw it play out and heard Dana's voice during the matches confirming the bet. I think that really threw a wrench in his whole game plan and is what kind of forced him to walk out of Japan with his head hung low. I would imagine something like this doesn't seem like a big deal to us in the U.S., but I'm not sure in Japan it isn't.





From what I understand, Dana made a personal bet on Chuck winning the GP and it was something like 10k, but don't quote me on numbers.

AS far as I remember, Wanderlei not coming back to the UFC was the result of him losing to Henderson. Dana said that he is no longer the best because he lost to Dan so he would not have him fight Chuck.

As for Fedor and M-1, I think this article just underscores that Fedor will never be in the UFC.

Post #36   7/12/10 11:08:34PM   

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Posted by Rush

From what I understand, Dana made a personal bet on Chuck winning the GP and it was something like 10k, but don't quote me on numbers.

AS far as I remember, Wanderlei not coming back to the UFC was the result of him losing to Henderson. Dana said that he is no longer the best because he lost to Dan so he would not have him fight Chuck.

As for Fedor and M-1, I think this article just underscores that Fedor will never be in the UFC.



I had thought the bet was for more money. I've seen all kinds of figures out there. I'd have to go back and watch the fight to get the right number but I'm pretty sure during that broadcast Dana said what the exact number was. For some reason my memory is telling me it was up in the 6 figure mark but I could be way off.

Obviously with the natural attrition of memory that comes with time and the fact that nobody in this business ever seems to tell the full truth it's hard to know for sure what went on. Especially when the Yakuza are involved. I probably didn't do as good of a job as I'd have liked to in my original post but the point I was trying to illustrate is that nobody seems to have a straight answer. There seems to be about 100 different stories out there on what really happened and at least half of them probably hold at least some form of the truth.

Post #37   7/12/10 11:17:33PM   

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Posted by Rush

AS far as I remember, Wanderlei not coming back to the UFC was the result of him losing to Henderson. Dana said that he is no longer the best because he lost to Dan so he would not have him fight Chuck.



Pride had already reneged by the time that Wanderlei fought Henderson. The reason Dana was upset about that fight was that the Wanderlei/Chuck fight that they were putting together lost some of it's sizzle.

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Post #38   7/12/10 11:32:47PM   

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Posted by Jackelope


Posted by Rush

From what I understand, Dana made a personal bet on Chuck winning the GP and it was something like 10k, but don't quote me on numbers.

AS far as I remember, Wanderlei not coming back to the UFC was the result of him losing to Henderson. Dana said that he is no longer the best because he lost to Dan so he would not have him fight Chuck.

As for Fedor and M-1, I think this article just underscores that Fedor will never be in the UFC.



I had thought the bet was for more money. I've seen all kinds of figures out there. I'd have to go back and watch the fight to get the right number but I'm pretty sure during that broadcast Dana said what the exact number was. For some reason my memory is telling me it was up in the 6 figure mark but I could be way off.

Obviously with the natural attrition of memory that comes with time and the fact that nobody in this business ever seems to tell the full truth it's hard to know for sure what went on. Especially when the Yakuza are involved. I probably didn't do as good of a job as I'd have liked to in my original post but the point I was trying to illustrate is that nobody seems to have a straight answer. There seems to be about 100 different stories out there on what really happened and at least half of them probably hold at least some form of the truth.



the bet was for 250,000. in fact dana discussed it during both tournament broadcasts (don't know about the currency )
following that takada actually announced at a ufc event (around 45ish) that he would send sakuraba and fujita to the ufc but it never happened. a while later there was also a verbal agreement (which prompted dana to arrange the announcement) that wanderlei would fight, which pride also reneged on. wanderlei had no plans to leave pride at that time.
pride held all the cards at that point and imo they blatantly took advantage of the fact that ufc weren't yet anywhere near as strong.

i terms of co-promotion, it's pretty obvious why the ufc doesn't want to do it. they built the western version of mma from the ground up. much more so than we give them credit for sometimes. things like getting the sport sanctioned again, educating fans, breaking the mainstream market, improving production etc etc. all massive tasks, and no organization deserves to be given a free ride on the back of their hard work. even if signing the great fedor is on the line.

imo this statement is just a sign from m1 that they want to talk again without admitting that they are the ones making an enormous concession. and one which has been the final straw in every previous negotiation. no co-promotion required.

Post #39   7/13/10 12:47:57AM   

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I looked up the bet. Here is the scoop.

The bet was for 250k, and I bet the currency was USD because 250000 yen is not that much money. The bet was for the Chuck vs. Wanderlei fight in the GP only.

The 10k that I was thinking of was for the Chuck losing weight.

As for White's feelings on Wanderlei fighting Chuck, my mistake was thinking it was the Henderson loss, but it was the loss to Cro Cop.



White was a little more direct with his comments when asked about Pride Middleweight Champion Wanderlei Silva, who lost to Mirko Cro Cop in Pride on September 10th. White said, “I think he just got executed. Isn’t that what happened to him?”

He was even more direct when asked if Silva would be seen in the UFC anytime soon. “Did he wake up yet? Let’s put it this way, everybody’s terrorized me about the fight with Wanderlei Silva. I’ve been trying to make that fight for five years,” White stated. “If that fight happened in the United States right now, he’d be on a ninety day suspension for getting his head kicked to another planet. He’s out. There’s no way he can come fight in the United States right now. When he gets back up and wins another fight or something… trust me when I tell you, I’d love to have Wanderlei Silva under contract with the UFC. I joke around, but I’d love to have him under contract.”

Post #40   7/13/10 1:28:08AM   

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Co-Branding makes no sense. Yes, have him compete in Sambo comps. Its stupid not too, especially when he represents his country in this sport. But co-branding is dumb. Its not whats best for Fedor its whats best for M-1.

Post #41   7/13/10 10:33:49AM   

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What is the distinction between co-promotion and co-branding? Is there one or is it just a bad translation?

Post #42   7/13/10 12:09:41PM   

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You know, Dana White should go for this. They said Fedor would fight anyone, so Dana doesn't have to give him a title shot or even a big name at first. So even if one doesn't consider Fedor a top heavyweight, no one can deny he is a very interesting addition to the HW division.

Also Dana's BIG thing was the co-promotion. He absolutely would not have that. Now M-1 wants co-branding. Not exactly sure what that means, maybe just advertisement of the M-1 brand? Anyways sounds like its more of a possibility now, unless Dana wants to be a child and crap on them some more and say I told you so.

Post #43   7/13/10 2:19:01PM   

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Posted by BigIP


Posted by Aether

Just the fact that he would include the comment "I know they will cheat us" says a lot about this guy's ability to bargain. Honestly how stupid do you have to be to write that? You know you just lost any leverage you may have once had, and now you're going to openly talk **** about the company you're trying to make a deal with?




If you remember Dana called them "Crazy Russians". Both sides have been childish during the negotiations. People need to be objective about this instead of blindly supporting everything the UFC does. How great would it be if the UFC cross promoted with DREAM and Strikeforce? As fans we should be supporting these types of open contracts not denouncing them.



saying that the ufc would cheat them isn't really a big deal in the big picture when you consider who they are trying to negotiate with. dana trashes people in the public all the time and clearly m1 doesn't trust dana. that's basically all they are saying. Dana publically disrespects, bashes, belittles etc...pretty much everyone he negotiates w/that doesn't see things his way.

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Post #44   7/13/10 4:30:53PM   

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Posted by MaxOne


Posted by BigIP


Posted by Aether

Just the fact that he would include the comment "I know they will cheat us" says a lot about this guy's ability to bargain. Honestly how stupid do you have to be to write that? You know you just lost any leverage you may have once had, and now you're going to openly talk **** about the company you're trying to make a deal with?




If you remember Dana called them "Crazy Russians". Both sides have been childish during the negotiations. People need to be objective about this instead of blindly supporting everything the UFC does. How great would it be if the UFC cross promoted with DREAM and Strikeforce? As fans we should be supporting these types of open contracts not denouncing them.



saying that the ufc would cheat them isn't really a big deal in the big picture when you consider who they are trying to negotiate with. dana trashes people in the public all the time and clearly m1 doesn't trust dana. that's basically all they are saying. Dana publically disrespects, bashes, belittles etc...pretty much everyone he negotiates w/that doesn't see things his way.



Again, the UFC is the one in the position of power in this negotiation. This offer is basically them crawling back and hoping for close to as good of a deal after Fedor took a loss they didn't expect. The UFC does not have to be nice because they don't need M-1 at all. If M-1 never makes a deal with the UFC that hurts M-1, not the UFC, and as a result they shouldn't be doing anything that could alienate one of the only two companies that are even capable of offering them what they're looking for.

If one of those companies is not interested at all, the other can pretty much offer whatever they want. Anything M-1 does to alienate themselves from the UFC only hurts them in the long run.

Dana can talk **** all day long about M-1 and in no way will it ever hurt his business. M-1 needs the UFC, the UFC does not need M-1. This is why it is clearly stupid for M-1 to trash the UFC, and why it really doesn't matter at all if the UFC trashes M-1.

Post #45   7/13/10 5:19:56PM   
 
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