Pick'em Leagues: THE BIG SHOW CASUAL BEST OF THE REST Single Event PvP: FANTASY POOLS Betting Leagues: THE BIG SHOW BEST OF THE REST

Fedor Would Beat Brock

Print  
  Page 1 of 3     1     2     3  
Posted By Message

bjj1605

Heavyweight Champ

bjj1605 Avatar
7
 
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:3,222
Career:1,566-910
Joined:Oct 2007
Camp: Dark Horse
Chips:
681
What did Saturday night prove?

That it's nearly impossible to be a full time MMA fighter at the highest level AND Keep your day job.

That lack of a gas tank will turn a W into an L.

That Brock Lesnar is one tough SOB and that he's evolving.

Above all though, his performance convinced me that Fedor Emelianenko WOULD beat Brock Lesnar. Fedor has knock out power. He's put down big guys in the HW division with a single well placed punch. See Brett Rogers for more info. The fear and discomfort that Brock showed when he was on his feet against a superior striker are really telling. If he did the same thing against Fedor that he did against Carwin he would get dropped again. If he was still conscious Fedor would not make the mistake that Carwin made.

Fedor is so experienced, technical, and patient. If he were on top of Brock he would pick his shots. Improve position. Look for submissions. Did you see when Brock stood up? How he exposed his back to Shane Carwin? That has Fedor vs Mark Hunt written all over it. Fedor would've locked up a RNC and been on his way back to Russia with the UFC HW Title. Perhaps more importantly Fedor isn't going to gas out after 5 minutes of fighting.

There's no doubt in my mind that Fedor could defend enough of Brock's takedowns to land the shot he needed. Even if Brock did get on top of him, so what? Fedor has submission victories over wrestlers like Marc Coleman and Kevin Randleman. As well as over monsters like Hong Man Choi (who dwarfs Brock Lesnar and Shane Carwin). He can deal with wrestling and he can deal with size. Put them both together and it might be more difficult, but the speed and precision of his arm bars would have Brock as much on edge as Carwin's punches did.

At the end of the day I still have Brock ranked #1 at HW. He's coming off of a win in a title fight and Fedor is coming off of a loss. But there's no doubt in my mind after the performance he put on on Saturday (as entertaining and impressive in some ways as it was) that Fedor Emelianenko is still the better fighter.


Flame On

Last edited 7/5/10 1:00AM server time by bjj1605
Edit note/reason: n/a

Post #1   7/5/10 12:56:18AM   

Jackelope

Go ahead, MOD my day

Jackelope Avatar
4



 
 
 


 
 
Posts:7,224
Career:864-486
Joined:Jan 2007
Chips:
1,202
I don't necessarily 100% agree or disagree. Although on the whole I mostly agree.

There are other factors to be considered for sure, but at the same time if the two fought next week you'd see my pick locked up with Fedor Emelianenko as the winner.

Last edited 7/5/10 1:05AM server time by Jackelope
Edit note/reason: n/a

Post #2   7/5/10 1:03:57AM   

warglory

Heavyweight Champ

warglory Avatar
1
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:4,023
Career:535-344
Joined:Feb 2007
Chips:
776
Fedor has never fought a wrestler of Brock's pedigree, size and strength (yes, Brock's wrestling is much more effective than both Randleman's and Coleman's). There's no way to say Fedor would stuff his take downs. Could he potentially beat him in the stand up dept? Yes, but I think Fedor would get owned if Brock took him down.

Last edited 7/5/10 2:12AM server time by warglory
Edit note/reason: n/a

Post #3   7/5/10 2:11:07AM   

chickmagnet

MMA Sensei

chickmagnet Avatar
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:1,157
Career:529-344
Joined:Jul 2007
Camp: The Pit
Chips:
148
I think it would be interesting, but with a fight like that anything could happen.


Either Fedor would flurry like Carwin did, not gas out and finish Brock, OR Brock would slam Fedor and pound him, with having to watch out for sub attempts of course...

Post #4   7/5/10 2:33:00AM   

ziegler3334

Standup Guy

ziegler3334 Avatar
1
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:255
Career:547-284
Joined:Aug 2008
Chips:
30
Fedor is great, I'll admit, but he is much smaller than Brock. He won't be able to catch Brock like he did Arlovski, with a clean shot like that. I think it would look very similar to Lesnar/Couture. The pure weight differential would decide the fight more than anything else.

Post #5   7/5/10 12:26:21PM   

Aether

Heavyweight Champ

Aether Avatar
4



 
 
 


 
 
Posts:5,068
Career:946-505
Joined:Apr 2007
Chips:
1,039
I think we've seen that Brock's wrestling is not as good in MMA as his credentials indicate. Randy outwrestled him giving up around 50 pounds, Carwin dealt with his wrestling easily until he gassed despite everyone saying his div II credentials couldn't compare with Brock's. He's a good wrestler, yes, but people are still acting like he's the best wrestler in the division and I think it's becoming clear that there are people that can outwrestle him, whether it's because of the time he spent away from competitive wrestling, or just the transition to MMA.

I agree that Fedor would win this fight and be able to successfully defend Brock's takedowns. Sambo has its roots in wrestling and is far more similar to MMA than any other discipline. Fedor has pretty high level wrestling himself in a style that's more directly applicable to MMA.

Post #6   7/5/10 1:27:46PM   

marcoDGK

Standup Guy

marcoDGK Avatar
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:429
Career:317-259
Joined:Nov 2009
Camp: DGK
Chips:
40

Posted by Jackelope

I don't necessarily 100% agree or disagree. Although on the whole I mostly agree.



Yeah, I feel the same way. I think, Lesnor exposed some major weakness in his stand up. I can see Fedor really taking advantage of that. If Brock took him down... which I think he can do easy because of his size and strength, Fedor has technique to submit him. No way Lesnor could stand up with him. Fedor speed with his hands is what has got him so many victories and Lesnor looked like a ish sandwich on his feet.

Post #7   7/5/10 2:29:29PM   

bjj1605

Heavyweight Champ

bjj1605 Avatar
7
 
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:3,222
Career:1,566-910
Joined:Oct 2007
Camp: Dark Horse
Chips:
681

Posted by Aether

I think we've seen that Brock's wrestling is not as good in MMA as his credentials indicate. Randy outwrestled him giving up around 50 pounds, Carwin dealt with his wrestling easily until he gassed despite everyone saying his div II credentials couldn't compare with Brock's. He's a good wrestler, yes, but people are still acting like he's the best wrestler in the division and I think it's becoming clear that there are people that can outwrestle him, whether it's because of the time he spent away from competitive wrestling, or just the transition to MMA.

I agree that Fedor would win this fight and be able to successfully defend Brock's takedowns. Sambo has its roots in wrestling and is far more similar to MMA than any other discipline. Fedor has pretty high level wrestling himself in a style that's more directly applicable to MMA.



That's pretty much what I was thinking. Randy gave him all he could handle in the wrestling department despite being WAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY smaller. Carwin stopped his shots pretty easily in the first round, though I only remember Brock attempting 2 of them, one of which was a desperation shot.

I think Fedor would be able to move and punish Brock while defending or even reversing the takedowns. He might not have the size but he would have a speed and technique advantage. I think his technique is superior everywhere, including wrestling. Not to mention that Brock looks very nervous and uncomfortable in exchanges. The problem with that is you don't fully commit to a shot if you're worried about getting hit in the process, a reason I feel explains why his wrestling hasn't translated as well as his credentials would predict.

But whenever I think of the fight I keep seeing Brock getting arm bared. I just think that Fedor is savy enough to maintain guard if he got taken down. And on his back those arm bars come quick and with perfect technique. Brock has long arms and I think it would be a piece of cake for Fedor to lock one up.

Post #8   7/5/10 2:37:59PM   

mrsmiley

Heavyweight Champ

mrsmiley Avatar
4



 
 
 


 
 
Posts:4,302
Career:1,518-886
Joined:Apr 2007
Camp: Nutthuggers Suck
Chips:
641

I think Fedor would still take Brock,yet I feel Carwin would TKO Fedor.

Post #9   7/5/10 3:23:06PM   

BlueSkiesBurn

USCFootball.com

BlueSkiesBurn Avatar
1
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:6,651
Career:534-389
Joined:Jun 2008
Chips:
711

Posted by Aether

I think we've seen that Brock's wrestling is not as good in MMA as his credentials indicate. Randy outwrestled him giving up around 50 pounds, Carwin dealt with his wrestling easily until he gassed despite everyone saying his div II credentials couldn't compare with Brock's. He's a good wrestler, yes, but people are still acting like he's the best wrestler in the division and I think it's becoming clear that there are people that can outwrestle him, whether it's because of the time he spent away from competitive wrestling, or just the transition to MMA.

I agree that Fedor would win this fight and be able to successfully defend Brock's takedowns. Sambo has its roots in wrestling and is far more similar to MMA than any other discipline. Fedor has pretty high level wrestling himself in a style that's more directly applicable to MMA.



Thank you for saying what I was saying before this fight even took place. Carwin exploited Lesnar in this fight. Lesnar's wresting has actually proven to be ineffective against HW's with a wrestling pedigree. His stand up is CLEARLY suspect. I think that Cain is going to take that title from Lesnar. He's got cardio for days, his wrestling is superb, his stand-up is better than Carwin's...etc...I think Brock is in trouble against Velasquez. It's pretty clear that the only things you need to beat Brock are a chin, solid wrestling base, and a gas tank.

Post #10   7/5/10 4:49:37PM   

Frost_777

MMA Regular

Frost_777 Avatar
1
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:54
Career:1,013-706
Joined:May 2008
Camp: TKO
Chips:
2
After the carwin fight im 10x more sure that fedor would win, the only thing brock has that fedor hasn't dealt with is his wrestling and that has seemed to not be an issue with anyone in the ufc with a wrestling background. The fight would probably look alot like fedor vs Big Tim because brock wont be able to take fedor's massive speed and his punching power and then give up his back for the choke.

Post #11   7/7/10 3:13:53PM   

warglory

Heavyweight Champ

warglory Avatar
1
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:4,023
Career:535-344
Joined:Feb 2007
Chips:
776
I'm sorry guys, Fedor is NOT a wrestler, he is sambo, yet you all think he'd be able to shrug off Lesnar solely because of his sambo background. I'll say it again, Fedor has never faced anyone of the caliber as Brock in terms of wrestling ability, all combined with amazing size and speed. If Brock took Fedor, he could not get back up.

However, if Fedor manages to keep it standing, it's going to be a bad night for Brock.

Last edited 7/7/10 5:52PM server time by warglory
Edit note/reason: n/a

Post #12   7/7/10 5:51:12PM   

prozacnation1978

Heavyweight Champ

prozacnation1978 Avatar
4



 
 
 


 
 
Posts:13,165
Career:2,530-1,341
Joined:Jul 2007
Camp: Dark Horse
Chips:
935
Brock really impressed me a lot. He will beat cain and roy
I still think dos santos is fast. I wanna see that match up
As for rankings. And not being biased. Brock is number one heavyweight. And top 5 pound for pound fighter in the world

Post #13   7/7/10 7:02:56PM   

BustedKnuckle

MMA Sensei

BustedKnuckle Avatar
3


 
 
 


 
 
Posts:1,445
Career:659-381
Joined:Sep 2009
Chips:
92
I really think the size difference would hurt Fedor. I believe Brocks power would suprise Fedor on the ground. Especialy if Brock was in top position. And I know Fedor has fought "BIG" guys before. But none that have near the athleticism that Brock has. The Hong Man Choi fight is a throw away fight to me. Not bashing.........but!!! Schilt got beat by him in a UD...not very impressive against the BIGGEST guys he fought. Also I dont think Fedor hits nearly as hard as Shane!......just opinion, but it would be hard to dispute! I mean Fedor has hit a lot of guys in the face and they havent wilted. Until Brock Carwin crushed faces for a living. And with his 5xl gloves I mean FACES! He doesnt punch you in the nose, temple, or the jaw. He punches your whole FACE!! I am not a Brock nuthugger. Far from it actually. I lost a lot of money betting on Carwin!!!!

Post #14   7/7/10 7:52:46PM   

Pookie

Remember Paul Herrera

Pookie Avatar
8
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:9,605
Career:1,910-1,061
Joined:Apr 2007
Camp: The Ringers
Chips:
1,787
I would feel more comfortable with my money on cain than fedor (vs. brock). Fedor v. Brock is a 50/50 fight to me. I would still pick fedor, but i wouldnt feel as comfortable as i would with cain.

To keep this in the right context though, i want to re-iterate that i wouldnt pick brock in either of these two matches.

Fedors strengths are his impeccable striking defense, his destructive hands, his crafty and underrated clinch game, his grappling transitions sweeps and subs, and his ground and pound.

Cains strengths are his endurance, his cardio, his wrestling( from a technical perspective its the best in the division), his pressure, and his well-rounded stand-up arsenal.

Brocks strengths is his down-syndrome level retard strength, his battering ram esque ground and pound, his agility(relative to his size), his wrestling(from a kinetic energy standpoint), His reach, and a true heavyweight jaw.

If Brock fought Cain i feel that Velasquez has the right tools to shut down brocks game, and has a better chance in doing so as the fight gets longer. So even if Brock has success early, his chances of continuing success exponentially dwindles as every round passes. Cain's built for trench wars, and brock is simply too big to fight a high-tempo fight at a constant rate for 5 rounds. His chances of finishing velasquez early are marginal at best, considering his tools to finish all rely on the ground. In this fight, i dont like Brocks odds as much as against fedor, and here's why...

If Brock fought Fedor, theres no evidence to suggest that Fedor can stop the takedown once lesnar grabs ahold of him. Such is the folly of Judo as your takedown base. Fedor would however have success with his footwork, keeping himself out of the pocket and thus having a better chance at avoiding Brocks bullrush takedowns. But once Fedor slips a punch and counters, which he undoubtably could do considering his reflexes and timing, its basically a coin flip. He either gets taken down while hes flat-footed or he clips lesnar hard enough to put him on the defensive. Fedor has always landed his hardest punches on opponents that dont move their head(See sylvia, zulu, rogers, etc...), so him hurting lesnar isnt that big of an assumption to say its 50/50, with the other option being him getting taken down.
And this is where fedor's chances deteriorate, Fedor has awesome transitions, but lesnar is big enough to just lay on him, keeping him on his back, and gnp him thoroughly. With Fedor's size disadvantage, i just dont see himself avoiding this area of the fight without expending enough energy that he gasses himself out later in the fight. And Fedor getting the sub just doesnt seem likely from the bottom. He's phenomenal with his top game(bar werdum), but i dont see him getting the chance to enforce these grappling skills as lesnar is big enough to just muscle himself off his back.
I cant see Brock winning on the feet, barring a miracle. And i cant see fedor winning on the ground, barring a knockdown which is possible because every fight starts on the feet.
I see it as 50/50, but id still pick fedor because i believe in the dream.

And Cain, well, i think he'll stomp a hole in Brocks ass bigger than his Diverticulitis.

Last edited 7/7/10 10:27PM server time by pookie
Edit note/reason: n/a

_______________________________________
BJ Penn beat Frankie Edgar more times than Benson Henderson beat Frankie Edgar.

Post #15   7/7/10 8:56:37PM   
 
  Page 1 of 3     1     2     3