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Danzig vs Wiman

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postman

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Could the Athletic Commission over turn this and make it a No Contest? If so what are your thoughts on this happening?

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Post #1   6/13/10 2:04:26AM   

bjj1605

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They most likely won't. Same thing happened in Ben Askren's first round Bellator fight. He had the guy in a head lock and the ref stopped it for absolutely no reason, it wasn't even a choke in Askren's fight.

Post #2   6/13/10 2:16:14AM   

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I doubt that will happen but is another argument for a replay option.

Post #3   6/13/10 2:25:46AM   

postman

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It was so bad I mean he chose to check the arm that Danzig was using to push Wimans hips down it was unreal. Had he looked on the other side there was no pressure on that side of the neck.

I'm also pretty sure that saved Rothwell from getting stopped in the 2nd.

I have to disagree that the Askren choke wasn't a choke I'm pretty sure it wasn't going to go much longer before thomas tapped. I know it was a bad stopage but wasgoing to be a finish IMO.

Last edited 6/13/10 2:35AM server time by postman
Edit note/reason: n/a

Post #4   6/13/10 2:33:13AM   

bjj1605

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Posted by postman

It was so bad I mean he chose to check the arm that Danzig was using to push Wimans hips down it was unreal. Had he looked on the other side there was no pressure on that side of the neck.

I'm also pretty sure that saved Rothwell from getting stopped in the 2nd.

I have to disagree that the Askren choke wasn't a choke I'm pretty sure it wasn't going to go much longer before thomas tapped. I know it was a bad stopage but wasgoing to be a finish IMO.



I watched the replay over and over. It was an arm in head lock. The arm wasn't under the neck. He was bending his head at an awkward angle and that kept Thomas's chin against his own chest. I don't think he would have gone out from that choke if Askren had kept it on for the whole fight.

I hate to disagree so thuroughly, and I mean no disrespect. Askren has really sloppy grappling, especially submissions. I was surprised considering his wrestling pedigree. But even his top game is horrible in MMA. What he did against Thomas was a head lock. There was no conventional BJJ choke set up and he merely wrapped his arm around his head.

Edit:



Here's a quote from an author and a couple links to gifs and articles on the fight.
"After a few submission attempts from Ben he locked up a version of the "Japanese necktie" but didn't have the position correct to cut off blood flow to the brain turning it into a neck crank instead. As Thomas was trying to fight the hold the referee jumped in and called the bout off due to "submission." It was a horrible job of refereeing but does seem to be par for the course for the joke that is MMA in Illinois"

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://img.mixedmartialarts.com/method%3Dget%26s%3Dben-askren-ryan-thomas-bellator-14.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm%3Fgo%3Dnews.detail%26gid%3D230495&usg=__B9MWhA4XS6Hr2QUs0qrPrdLRKb0=&h=164&w=250&sz=2442&hl=en&start=5&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=igkdqgDJjksYIM:&tbnh=73&tbnw=111&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dben%2Baskren%2Bvs%2Bryan%2Bthomas%2Bstoppage%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26tbs%3Disch:1
link

Last edited 6/13/10 3:07AM server time by bjj1605
Edit note/reason: n/a

Post #5   6/13/10 2:58:54AM   

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That blown call made me loose a big parlay payout
I was pissed. Highly likely they will fight again but it was a another shameful call

Post #6   6/13/10 8:56:43AM   

postman

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Posted by bjj1605


Posted by postman

It was so bad I mean he chose to check the arm that Danzig was using to push Wimans hips down it was unreal. Had he looked on the other side there was no pressure on that side of the neck.

I'm also pretty sure that saved Rothwell from getting stopped in the 2nd.

I have to disagree that the Askren choke wasn't a choke I'm pretty sure it wasn't going to go much longer before thomas tapped. I know it was a bad stopage but wasgoing to be a finish IMO.



I watched the replay over and over. It was an arm in head lock. The arm wasn't under the neck. He was bending his head at an awkward angle and that kept Thomas's chin against his own chest. I don't think he would have gone out from that choke if Askren had kept it on for the whole fight.

I hate to disagree so thuroughly, and I mean no disrespect. Askren has really sloppy grappling, especially submissions. I was surprised considering his wrestling pedigree. But even his top game is horrible in MMA. What he did against Thomas was a head lock. There was no conventional BJJ choke set up and he merely wrapped his arm around his head.

Edit:



Here's a quote from an author and a couple links to gifs and articles on the fight.
"After a few submission attempts from Ben he locked up a version of the "Japanese necktie" but didn't have the position correct to cut off blood flow to the brain turning it into a neck crank instead. As Thomas was trying to fight the hold the referee jumped in and called the bout off due to "submission." It was a horrible job of refereeing but does seem to be par for the course for the joke that is MMA in Illinois"

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://img.mixedmartialarts.com/method%3Dget%26s%3Dben-askren-ryan-thomas-bellator-14.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm%3Fgo%3Dnews.detail%26gid%3D230495&usg=__B9MWhA4XS6Hr2QUs0qrPrdLRKb0=&h=164&w=250&sz=2442&hl=en&start=5&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=igkdqgDJjksYIM:&tbnh=73&tbnw=111&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dben%2Baskren%2Bvs%2Bryan%2Bthomas%2Bstoppage%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26tbs%3Disch:1
link



First thing we are cool no disrespect felt its all good. Second people have been know to tap from neck cranks. Third I am amazed at Bens Sloppy ground game as well. LOL I guess other then Thomas no one really knows how bad it was. I heard an interview with Ben where he said it was deep and he thought he would finish but what else would he say. I appreciate you standing behind your argument too often people post and then either flame or drop there case. I enjoy intelligent conversation

Post #7   6/13/10 11:20:37AM   

BustedKnuckle

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Mac got the raw end of it for sure. The AC wont do anything about it. its unfortunate. And yves needs to tighten his game up a bit. I used to think he was a great ref, but he has had a few shady calls. Where big jon when you need him.

Post #8   6/13/10 11:26:22AM   

Aether

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I thought that this was exactly why they added the instant replay rule. I was really confused when they gave the fight to Wiman. Why aren't they using this rule?

Post #9   6/13/10 2:39:19PM   

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It was one of the worst calls in all mma. Mac is a tuff guy he would of got out of the choke.

Post #10   6/13/10 8:44:10PM   

jiujitsufreak74

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you know, i'm not really that mad at the referee. Wiman told the ref that he was out, you can see it on the replay. the ref then panicked and checked his arm and then made a quick decision hoping to not let Mac suffer any more damage while unconscious. was it a bad call? absolutely. but when the guy tells you he is out it's an understandable bad call.

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Post #11   6/13/10 8:51:17PM   

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Both fighters showed undeniable class after the fight. I was surprised Danzig kept his cool because of his attitude on TUF. That being said, no replay...ever. Worst idea ever. Replay should be banned in all sports. Replay takes real-life out of sports and steals the integrity of athletics.

Post #12   6/14/10 12:13:33PM   

gartface

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Rematch is the only way to solve this.

Also I'm surprised to see no one on here has made a thread about the Condit stoppage. Not that I disagree with it at all, just surprised to see no one on here complaining about it.

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Post #13   6/14/10 12:17:17PM   

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Posted by postman


Posted by bjj1605


Posted by postman

It was so bad I mean he chose to check the arm that Danzig was using to push Wimans hips down it was unreal. Had he looked on the other side there was no pressure on that side of the neck.

I'm also pretty sure that saved Rothwell from getting stopped in the 2nd.

I have to disagree that the Askren choke wasn't a choke I'm pretty sure it wasn't going to go much longer before thomas tapped. I know it was a bad stopage but wasgoing to be a finish IMO.



I watched the replay over and over. It was an arm in head lock. The arm wasn't under the neck. He was bending his head at an awkward angle and that kept Thomas's chin against his own chest. I don't think he would have gone out from that choke if Askren had kept it on for the whole fight.

I hate to disagree so thuroughly, and I mean no disrespect. Askren has really sloppy grappling, especially submissions. I was surprised considering his wrestling pedigree. But even his top game is horrible in MMA. What he did against Thomas was a head lock. There was no conventional BJJ choke set up and he merely wrapped his arm around his head.

Edit:



Here's a quote from an author and a couple links to gifs and articles on the fight.
"After a few submission attempts from Ben he locked up a version of the "Japanese necktie" but didn't have the position correct to cut off blood flow to the brain turning it into a neck crank instead. As Thomas was trying to fight the hold the referee jumped in and called the bout off due to "submission." It was a horrible job of refereeing but does seem to be par for the course for the joke that is MMA in Illinois"

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://img.mixedmartialarts.com/method%3Dget%26s%3Dben-askren-ryan-thomas-bellator-14.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm%3Fgo%3Dnews.detail%26gid%3D230495&usg=__B9MWhA4XS6Hr2QUs0qrPrdLRKb0=&h=164&w=250&sz=2442&hl=en&start=5&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=igkdqgDJjksYIM:&tbnh=73&tbnw=111&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dben%2Baskren%2Bvs%2Bryan%2Bthomas%2Bstoppage%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26tbs%3Disch:1
link



First thing we are cool no disrespect felt its all good. Second people have been know to tap from neck cranks. Third I am amazed at Bens Sloppy ground game as well. LOL I guess other then Thomas no one really knows how bad it was. I heard an interview with Ben where he said it was deep and he thought he would finish but what else would he say. I appreciate you standing behind your argument too often people post and then either flame or drop there case. I enjoy intelligent conversation




hard to tell but its looking close to a Darce

Post #14   6/15/10 11:39:51AM   

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Posted by gartface

Rematch is the only way to solve this.

Also I'm surprised to see no one on here has made a thread about the Condit stoppage. Not that I disagree with it at all, just surprised to see no one on here complaining about it.



Look I love discussing bad calls or bad judgments as much as the next cry baby, but Condit's stoppage was a 50-50. Macdonald wasnt doing sh.it to improve his position and if I have to swallow BS stoppages like that when it is NOT in my favor, Ill swallow this one that IS in my favor (i picked Condit). However, I know what you mean. My argument from other stoppages was a fighter holding on just for a few seconds even suffering pain, just to make it to the next round or to the decision if youd win. The responses I heard: Why should someone get brain trauma? Why should he break his arm/leg? Blah blah blah

Danzig's scenario is much worse and is terrible. Not only did I lose that pick, but I lost out in seeing a fight. I really liked how Danzig immediately contested it and even got back into a fighting stance. I wanted Danzig to complain on Joes mic to the judges, crowd, anyone, just to create a stir.

I think refs should be FINED for acts like this. If there is no punishment, why would they change?

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Post #15   6/15/10 4:23:44PM   
 
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