Is American wrestling stalling the progress of Mixed Martial Arts?

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Posted by mshalosky

I dont get where everyone is coming from with frankie edgar being a top wrestler. He is a good wrestler but not great. He is just very good overall. Veach, maynard and griffin took him down just to name a few.

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BJ Penn beat Frankie Edgar more times than Benson Henderson beat Frankie Edgar.

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Posted by bjj1605

I think that the problem isn't something that has to be there, rather it is something we have created through faulty institutions. There are several rules that give an advantage to wrestlers and there are a few key changes that need to be made to mitigate those advantages.

For one thing, the judges need to be more educated on the intricacies of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and grappling in general. I've seen many fights where a wrestler wins based on having top position despite the fact that he actually lost the grappling exchanges. A take down in and of its self isn't an end, it's a means to an end. Barring slams that actually cause damage, takedowns should be scored only minimally (about as much as a feeler strike to set up something bigger, IMO). When you shoot a double leg the eventual goal should be to pass guard, lock in a submission, or land meaningful ground and pound from the top position. With out that the takedown is pretty worthless. If a fighter takes down his opponent and spends the whole time eating strikes from the bottom and defending submission attempts, the fighter on top is definitely loosing. By our current system the guy on top almost always wins. Look at Jeff Curran vs Takeya Mizugaki for an excellent example of what I'm talking about.

Another problem is the fact that kneeing a fighter on his knees is illegal. One of the best ways to stop a classic wrestler shot is with a knee strike, a technique that the rules effectively negate. Sure you can still land the occasional knee off of a shot, but the fear of a DQ because your opponents knees were touching the mat make it a risky strategy. I believe this is why Greco Roman Wrestling and Judo were all in all more effective in Pride than was Freestyle Wrestling. You can still outlaw knee strikes on the ground, just change the rule from "three points of contact" to "a fighter on his back."

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Posted by bjj1605

I think that the problem isn't something that has to be there, rather it is something we have created through faulty institutions. There are several rules that give an advantage to wrestlers and there are a few key changes that need to be made to mitigate those advantages.

For one thing, the judges need to be more educated on the intricacies of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and grappling in general. I've seen many fights where a wrestler wins based on having top position despite the fact that he actually lost the grappling exchanges. A take down in and of its self isn't an end, it's a means to an end. Barring slams that actually cause damage, takedowns should be scored only minimally (about as much as a feeler strike to set up something bigger, IMO). When you shoot a double leg the eventual goal should be to pass guard, lock in a submission, or land meaningful ground and pound from the top position. With out that the takedown is pretty worthless. If a fighter takes down his opponent and spends the whole time eating strikes from the bottom and defending submission attempts, the fighter on top is definitely loosing. By our current system the guy on top almost always wins. Look at Jeff Curran vs Takeya Mizugaki for an excellent example of what I'm talking about.

Another problem is the fact that kneeing a fighter on his knees is illegal. One of the best ways to stop a classic wrestler shot is with a knee strike, a technique that the rules effectively negate. Sure you can still land the occasional knee off of a shot, but the fear of a DQ because your opponents knees were touching the mat make it a risky strategy. I believe this is why Greco Roman Wrestling and Judo were all in all more effective in Pride than was Freestyle Wrestling. You can still outlaw knee strikes on the ground, just change the rule from "three points of contact" to "a fighter on his back."

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Posted by bjj1605

I think that the problem isn't something that has to be there, rather it is something we have created through faulty institutions. There are several rules that give an advantage to wrestlers and there are a few key changes that need to be made to mitigate those advantages.

For one thing, the judges need to be more educated on the intricacies of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and grappling in general. I've seen many fights where a wrestler wins based on having top position despite the fact that he actually lost the grappling exchanges. A take down in and of its self isn't an end, it's a means to an end. Barring slams that actually cause damage, takedowns should be scored only minimally (about as much as a feeler strike to set up something bigger, IMO). When you shoot a double leg the eventual goal should be to pass guard, lock in a submission, or land meaningful ground and pound from the top position. With out that the takedown is pretty worthless. If a fighter takes down his opponent and spends the whole time eating strikes from the bottom and defending submission attempts, the fighter on top is definitely loosing. By our current system the guy on top almost always wins. Look at Jeff Curran vs Takeya Mizugaki for an excellent example of what I'm talking about.

Another problem is the fact that kneeing a fighter on his knees is illegal. One of the best ways to stop a classic wrestler shot is with a knee strike, a technique that the rules effectively negate. Sure you can still land the occasional knee off of a shot, but the fear of a DQ because your opponents knees were touching the mat make it a risky strategy. I believe this is why Greco Roman Wrestling and Judo were all in all more effective in Pride than was Freestyle Wrestling. You can still outlaw knee strikes on the ground, just change the rule from "three points of contact" to "a fighter on his back."

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