Is John Fitch the most under appreciated fighter in the UFC? |
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postman
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 564-321
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Delmont ,Pa
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Sunday night Pens game has me drunk...... I was 4th row on the blue line give me a break! I love Both Fitch and GSP but they put on the same fight. that being said I wanna see some one bring the fight to GSP and take his ass down gain top control and ride him for 5! who wan do that? Aside from Cal sanderson....Jon Fitch, Just like Brock and Carwin I wanna see 2 bulls bang heads in the center of the octogon.
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Post #16 3/28/10 11:59:28PM
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lohmann
A Black Belt in Jiu-Jitsu
Career record: 849-469
Season: 19-5 (#209)
Location: United States
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Posted by Aether
need to beat a top 5 guy before a title shot IMO, which Fitch hasn't done since his loss to GSP.
Is Fitch not defeating a top fighter really his fault though? Outside of Alves, the UFC rarely affords him top-ranked talent to beat up on, probably because they do not want to be left going to Fitch again after squandering possible contenders on a fighter that just does not lose to any welterweight (except GSP and sometimes Alves).
He does not finish, but he forces others to fight the way he wants to fight and consequently wins every time out (except against GSP). His being boring is a subjective value, but his winning every fight he has is fact. Sometimes in sport, there has to be a line where winning matters more than being exciting.
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Post #17 3/29/10 1:19:35AM
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Aether
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 929-503
Season: 18-6 (#402)
Location: Edmonton
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Posted by lohmann
Posted by Aether
need to beat a top 5 guy before a title shot IMO, which Fitch hasn't done since his loss to GSP.
Is Fitch not defeating a top fighter really his fault though? Outside of Alves, the UFC rarely affords him top-ranked talent to beat up on, probably because they do not want to be left going to Fitch again after squandering possible contenders on a fighter that just does not lose to any welterweight (except GSP and sometimes Alves).
He does not finish, but he forces others to fight the way he wants to fight and consequently wins every time out (except against GSP). His being boring is a subjective value, but his winning every fight he has is fact. Sometimes in sport, there has to be a line where winning matters more than being exciting.
It doesn't really matter whose fault it is. I don't see what people are saying here to be honest. Fitch has had 4 fights since his loss to GSP. Pretty standard in a division with so many good fighters after getting demolished in your last title fight. He needs to fight Alves still, whether it's his fault or not. Getting smashed by GSP and then beating paulo thiago and ben saunders just isn't enough to warrant a title shot. He needs to fight someone at the top of the division, and he hasn't even faced a top10 fighter, let alone top5 since that loss.
Last edited 3/29/10 8:55AM by Aether
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #18 3/29/10 8:54:54AM
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State_Champ
MMA Sensei
Career record: 930-568
Season: 19-5 (#268)
Location: The Blue Sphere near the Red Sphere
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Is John Fitch the most under appreciated fighter in the UFC?
I don't think so. I'd say the fact that most people consistently rank him#2 or #3 at WW would point to the fact that people appreciate John Fitch plenty.
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Post #19 3/29/10 8:59:52AM
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We're in Lodi, bitch!
Career record: 950-500
Season: 22-2 (#55)
Location: Fort Waste, IN
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Posted by seanfu
The only reason I think Daley will or posible should get the shot sooner is because he's new, and he'll likely knock out Kos.
See Kos vs. Anthony Johnson. That's exactly how I would expect Kos/Semtex play out.
Last edited 3/29/10 10:55AM by emfleek
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #20 3/29/10 9:19:42AM
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RandyCouture
MMA Regular
Career record: 896-481
Season: 18-6 (#268)
Location: Ohio
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people make me mad about this subject. My friend was like I like fitch before the fight after the fight he was like wow that was boring. But his eyes were glued to the screen during the GSP fight. I was like what was the difference expect for the 2 sub attempts. Quit hugging nuts and realize fitch is a great fighter.
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Post #21 3/29/10 10:52:09AM
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RhythmAndStyle
MMA Sensei
Career record: 848-520
Season: 18-6 (#712)
Location: Oshkosh,Wisconsin
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are some of yall f*ckin retards..how do u compare Fitch and GSP..Fitch is 22-3 with 12 decisions,5 submissions and 4 tko's..GSP 20-2 with 8 tko's,5 submissions and 7 decisions..some of yall need to let go of Fitch's nuts..Fitch has no stand up game..GSP has at least ko'd some fighters(Hughes and Hieron with clean tko, not that lay and rabbit punch until the ref steps in)..and Fitch doesn't have the speed the strength, he has nothin on GSP and they're not mirror images of each other..GSP wouldn't stand with u unless he knows he can..Fitch tried it against Mike Pierce and was gettin beat..i'm not even sure Fitch knows how to throw a leg kick or knows the definition of combos..cause when he throws punches in combos that looks like school yard fightin..so Fitch huggers..stop comparing him to GSP...
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Post #22 3/29/10 11:33:15AM
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Caesarrrr
Standup Guy
Career record: 65-57
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Georgia
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It's based on more than just records. Records are nice and good to look at, and to hype up, but you have to have something more than just a few decisions. Normally even a decision wouldn't be bad, but they've been against mid level opponents and were lackluster attempts at best. Mike Pierce? his second fight, and he had Fitch wobbling during the second and third round. Paulo Thiago? also his second fight in the UFC, and he only got the fight because They needed to feed someone to Fitch, and thiago had just KOed Kos. Ben Saunders? lackluster performance. Excellent wrestling, but his striking wasn't that clean and crisp, and it was against Ben Saunders, who has excellent knees, and thats it.
don't get me wrong, Fitch is a great fighter, but look at it from a bussiness stand point. You have Fitch, who is a great wrestler, but shows little overall improvement against mid range competition. He has relatively few recent highlights. His last loss left him looking like the underside of my shoe after 3 years. GSP v Fitch II is one of the least wanted fights for GSP, which is saying something, since almost everyone wants him to move up to MW.
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Post #23 3/29/10 2:11:37PM
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lohmann
A Black Belt in Jiu-Jitsu
Career record: 849-469
Season: 19-5 (#209)
Location: United States
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Posted by Aether
It doesn't really matter whose fault it is. I don't see what people are saying here to be honest. Fitch has had 4 fights since his loss to GSP. Pretty standard in a division with so many good fighters after getting demolished in your last title fight. He needs to fight Alves still, whether it's his fault or not. Getting smashed by GSP and then beating paulo thiago and ben saunders just isn't enough to warrant a title shot. He needs to fight someone at the top of the division, and he hasn't even faced a top10 fighter, let alone top5 since that loss.
In that case: Fitch has done more for title shot consideration than GSP's last opponent, Dan Hardy, since his loss to GSP. He defeated a top-ten Paulo Thiago, who defeated Mick Swick (the same fighter that Hardy beat for a title shot) and Josh Koscheck, defeated Ben Saunders (that murdered Marcus Davis much worse than Hardy did), and defeated Gono in a non-controversial decision.
Zuffa will not throw him top ten fighters because they don't want to run the risk of rematches ad nauseum. That's the reason they matched Fitch and Alves up: one would lose.
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Post #24 3/29/10 2:57:27PM
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RandyCouture
MMA Regular
Career record: 896-481
Season: 18-6 (#268)
Location: Ohio
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Fitch is not as good as GSP period but lately they both have boring lay and pray styles.
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Post #25 3/29/10 6:20:15PM
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king_katool
MMA Sensei
Career record: 256-188
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Hamilton,ON,CA
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Posted by RandyCouture
Fitch is not as good as GSP period but lately they both have boring lay and pray styles.
EDITED, i dont wanna get banned
Last edited 3/29/10 6:24PM by king_katool
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #26 3/29/10 6:23:57PM
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TheCatFather
MMA Regular
Career record: 919-660
Season: 15-8 (#1335)
Location: Brooklyn
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Fitch, Guida and Okami all win the same way......BORRRRRIIIIIINNNNG!
Out of the 3 I give Fitch the most props because of his heart and determination but he needs to finish opponents. Swick was squeaking by with UD's which by the way never got him a title shot. Fitch should of and could of had a rematch with GSP but his style doesn't sell PPV's and Hardy's does, even though Hardy laid a big egg there was a better chance for an exciting match with Hardy then Fitch and that is going to hold Fitch back. UD's will only prolong your rise to the top. 
Let Bruce show them what needs to be done.....
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Post #27 3/29/10 7:11:00PM
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seanfu
BANNED
Career record: 162-89
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Fort Wayne IN
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I don't think Fitch or GSP is boring, but they position and pass too much against solid defensive guys, instead of passing tag a little then pass. Tag a little, pass again.
It keeps the crowd content. And as for the GSP being boring thing, think about this, had he finished Hardy in any way would people have called that fight boring?
Be honest with yourselves, he did the same thing to Hardy on the ground that he did to fitch standing. He whooped major ass and was dominant. And tbh I watched all 5 rounds on MMA Core, which is something I just don't usually do.
To say the Hardy fight was lay and pray is something totallt misleading as well as he constantly achieved takedowns and PASSED. And went for a couple subs and even got some GnP in there. Lay and pray is sitting in one position on top and trowing occasional shots, Tito, anymore, is a LnP to me.
But when you have constant passing that is not LnP. I think however if you mean that lack of competitiveness makes it boring then sure, it could be that.
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Post #28 3/29/10 10:39:55PM
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Rush
Laying down the beats
Career record: 467-329
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Canadian living in the SF Bay Area
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My biggest problem with Fitch (and I know this has little to do with title shots) is that he (IMO) is essentially the same looking fighter as he was 2-3 years ago.
So in terms of the question in the thread title, by my standards he is very under appreciated in terms of his win record, but he really needs to fight more top guys. That is why I wanted to see the Alves fight so badly.
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Post #29 3/29/10 11:47:00PM
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RiseUp21
MMA Regular
Career record: 201-115
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Hatfield, PA
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If Fitch were to beat Alves, get the title shot and lose, then he would basically be the welterweight version of Rich Franklin at MW. Then the UFC would lose a top 5 WW and gain a new MW, which I dont think it needs. Also, Dan Hardy got the shot because he dominated the guy that most fans thought deserved the next title shot.
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Post #30 3/30/10 11:57:09AM
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