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A look at Nate Diaz bulking up to 170lbs for Rory Markham!

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warglory

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Posted by Rush


Posted by warglory

I really hope 170 works for him, Nate just has so much trouble with wrestlers who can out-muscle him at every angle.



So how is 170 going to be better?



Well he cuts to make 155 doesn't he? In doing so, he obviously has to lean out a bunch. It would seem like he would have more strength when being able to bulk up at a more natural weight. I could be completely off base with that one.

Post #16   3/15/10 1:01:23AM   

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He looks completely different with the muscle gain i always thought his body looked ackward and unnatural at 155. hopefully 170 will bring nate more success. Markham is good on his feet but if nate can get it to the ground and end up on top its a wrap.

Post #17   3/15/10 2:23:49AM   

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I don't wanna see him finished in the UFC, I always like seeing him fight the guy's hilarious and amazing with his JJ and boxing, but I have quite a bit of doubt about how he's going to do at WW.

Post #18   3/15/10 4:51:33PM   

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Must be eating a lot of horse beef.

Post #19   3/15/10 9:22:54PM   

Rush

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Posted by warglory

Well he cuts to make 155 doesn't he? In doing so, he obviously has to lean out a bunch. It would seem like he would have more strength when being able to bulk up at a more natural weight. I could be completely off base with that one.



I understand your angle here, but I am looking at it from these perspectives.

1) Nate was a large (as in tall) LW. That reach advantage is now going to be gone. In addition, he will be competing against bigger and stronger guys. Yes, he will (in theory) be bigger himself, but so are his opponents

2) The top of the WW division is full of great wrestlers as well. In that respect I don't see how his weakness against wrestlers will be remedied. In fact I only see him at WW resulting in him getting finished in his losses.


The only advantage I see him having at WW is that it allows him to have a couple "tune up" fights against lower tier fighters (without people/fans saying WTF), which would give him an opportunity to possibly string a couple of wins together. He has 3 losses in his last 4 fights. I know that some of those losses are debatable by some, but you can only lose so many fights in a row before people expect your dismissal.

Post #20   3/16/10 1:19:58AM   

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I think it helps him with his stand up but I think it kills him on the ground. I think since he won't be drained as much, he'll be faster and with more power. he was so slow compared to all the other LW's and lacked power. Maybe the extra muscle will help him there. but on the ground against better wrestlers at 170 it's not going to get any easier.

Post #21   3/16/10 3:17:00AM   

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Nick Diaz walked away from the UFC and said he never wants to fight for them again. Its not about skill or the level of competition its about Nick's hate for the UFC and the way he feels they treat fighters, IMO he wont be back till there is some major $$ thrown his way and Im not sure Dana wants to do that so dont hold your breath.

Nate makes a huge cut to get to LW and his reach advantage might get shorter but he'll still have it = nonfactor.

In all fairness its not the same at WW as it is at LW just ask BJ Penn. I think Nate will gain a lot more strength than some are thinking he will B/C he's bulking up for WW and then he will be cutting down for weigh ins and with his frame I just see a lot of gain there.

The extra muscle will help a lot but I also agree that a lot of his issues are not skill, size or strength IMO its tactics and training. Like the way he always goes for a arm from the clinch and allows fighters to get a better position.

I think the biggest piece thats missing is wrestling for sure and I dont think he'll be able to take wrestlers down so he better be able to outstrike them and for a lot of them I think he can but in the top of the division I think he'll run into better strikers that he cant get to the ground.

Sometimes when people say "oh that guy would be better off at (insert camp)" I think its not that simple and its really not but I think he could really get some valuable experience from switching it up for a wile.

He's a good fighter and he's very young IMO he is nowhere near the peak of his ability's so dont count him out yet.

Last edited 3/16/10 11:56AM server time by slapshot
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Post #22   3/16/10 11:52:08AM   

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Posted by slapshot

Nate makes a huge cut to get to LW and his reach advantage might get shorter but he'll still have it = nonfactor.

In all fairness its not the same at WW as it is at LW just ask BJ Penn. I think Nate will gain a lot more strength than some are thinking he will B/C he's bulking up for WW and then he will be cutting down for weigh ins and with his frame I just see a lot of gain there.




There are a number of guys that make huge cuts for WW and the fighters are probably 3-4 inches taller on average than LW. I don't see how Nate losing his size advantage is a non-factor. One of his advantages with submissions was his relatively long frame. That will be reduced if not gone at WW.

I don't know if BJ is the best example to argue that Nate will benefit at WW. BJ lost all three fights at WW in the last 4 years and won every fight at LW.

Post #23   3/16/10 11:56:54PM   

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I think Nate losses a lot of the advantages he had at LW. Nate is a young fighter but he still has the same problems his brother does and that's he doesn't deal with strong wrestlers well at all. I don't see how moving up to a weight class that has even more fighters that can and will exploit the huge hole in his game will help him. Now I'm not saying he isn't a good fighter but his brother (who is better than him) struggled at WW in the UFC and now it has even better and more top level wrestlers than it did when his brother was there. That's not even taking in to account the guys at WW are really going to test his chin as they hit a lot hard than than most LWs he has faced do.

I think the best thing the Diaz brothers could do is get with a strong wrestling camp even if just a little while. But they wont because they seam to think there isn't a problem.

Last edited 3/17/10 7:26PM server time by telnights
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Post #24   3/17/10 7:23:24PM   

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Posted by telnights

I think the best thing the Diaz brothers could do is get with a strong wrestling camp even if just a little while. But they wont because they seam to think there isn't a problem.



They strike me as the type that would be too stubborn to leave their camp, even temporarily, because they want to "stay true" or "keep it real". I believe that anything else, according to them, would a slap in the face to Cesar Gracie.

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Post #25   3/18/10 9:04:55AM   

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Nate Diaz has a 76" reach, and almost none of that is shoulder.

The average LW is about 68-69"
Jumping up 3 weight classes and youll see that 76" is still a large reach for LHW.
To say that Diaz's length advantage will be heavily reduced is untrue. It will be slightly reduced, by 1-2 inches on average.

But in return, Diaz gets to bulk up and gain the man strength that he'll be coming into with age, without having to worry about making an increasingly harder weigh-in every time.

DIaz has been getting bigger in almost every fight, look at the weigh-in photo's and youll see the pattern. I think this move to 170 can be really fruitful for him. He's never going to gain any wrestling skill at 155, but at 170 it allows him to bulk up and possibly give himself a more well rounded game.

IMO, the positives completely outweigh the negatives.

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Post #26   3/18/10 4:13:16PM   

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The dude just needs to stop grabbing for kimuras and start securing himself an overhook to jack wrestlers' posture up.

The formula is the same to beat him and his brother. Smother their length and don't allow them room to do work. This is easily accomplished by utilizing the cage.

I swear if the Diaz bros fought all their fights in rings they'd both get a lot more wins.

Post #27   3/18/10 4:38:20PM   

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Posted by ncordless


Posted by hate4thestate

one of the things i dont see anyone mention here is his brother. what happens if nate skyrockets in the ww division? then what happens if ufc gets nick back when his contract with strikeforce is over? hmm things to think about.



I would make a lifetime avatar bet that Nate and Nick never fight each other in MMA.



How would you get the results?

Post #28   3/18/10 5:46:48PM   

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He Probably weighs around 180 now if not more. Way to go Nate. Keep Hittin those weights!!

Post #29   3/18/10 9:18:24PM   

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Posted by Rush


Posted by slapshot

Nate makes a huge cut to get to LW and his reach advantage might get shorter but he'll still have it = nonfactor.

In all fairness its not the same at WW as it is at LW just ask BJ Penn. I think Nate will gain a lot more strength than some are thinking he will B/C he's bulking up for WW and then he will be cutting down for weigh ins and with his frame I just see a lot of gain there.




There are a number of guys that make huge cuts for WW and the fighters are probably 3-4 inches taller on average than LW. I don't see how Nate losing his size advantage is a non-factor. One of his advantages with submissions was his relatively long frame. That will be reduced if not gone at WW.

I don't know if BJ is the best example to argue that Nate will benefit at WW. BJ lost all three fights at WW in the last 4 years and won every fight at LW.



He'll actually retain his length advantage over most of the weight class, I mean nate is taller than nick and though he's not got the same boxing skills the length is there so like I said it really is not going to make a big Impact.

Thank you for making a point. It really is a lot different at WW than at LW and imo it favors his frame and fight style.

Last edited 3/23/10 1:48PM server time by slapshot
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Post #30   3/23/10 1:46:46PM   
 
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