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Freddie Roach: The UFC is using James Toney to prove MMA fighters are better than boxers
Freddie Roach: The UFC is using James Toney to prove MMA fighters are better than boxers |
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BustedKnuckle
MMA Sensei
Career record: 424-232
Season: 32-18 (#496)
Location: The Flip Side
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I picked spinning back check kick....although i am pretty sure the quote is " Side Check Kick" Toney is a set up for Dana to dump on boxing. Toney is a former champ(yet out of the game) and is setting him up for destruction. He is willing to fight anyone the UFC throws at him. His arrogance will be his downfall. Toney could dispatch easier fighters but will most likely go after the most lucrative$$$$$$ fights. Against top competition he wil fail. The top HW guys are primarily grapplers that would kill him. LHW ...ehh I think Machidas counter strikes and use of Sumo to win rounds with TD's could win him a UD over Toney
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Post #16 3/12/10 11:08:46PM
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jae_1833
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 659-398
Season: 34-16 (#496)
Location: Cali
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Posted by cmill21
You guys are crazy. Anderson and BJ look great against guys who have trained boxing mixed in with other things, they do not face guys like Toney or Buakaw on the reg. It's a different game, mma fighters stand with these guys and they go down, thats the way it plays out for the most part. I can't believe how arrogant mma fans have become. MMA hasn't come so far that the JJ guys have passed the pure JJ guys outside of it, and the stand up has definetly not come to the level of K-1 and boxing, sorry boys.
I don't think we are arrogant nor ignorant of what Toney brings to the game, quite the contrary.....it's what he doesn't bring to the game. He's going to get owned because no one is going to box Toney in an MMA match, nobody with half a brain at least. They are going to kick him, take him down, or demolish him in the clinch. There is just too many aspects of the game for a single skilled fighter to be successful these days. It's not like he's been training MMA for years now and there is just too much for him to learn at this stage IMO.
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Post #17 3/13/10 1:59:57PM
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mrsmiley
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 643-370
Season: 38-12 (#96)
Location: Middletown,OH
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I would say Anderson would demolish him standing,but I don't know about GSP or Machida.
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Post #18 3/13/10 2:16:31PM
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jarod1005
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 0-0
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location:
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Well, first off, Toney is 41 years old. That being stated, he would still beat any MMA fighter standing. The ground will be difficult unless he has some well-rounded takedown defense skills. You see, this is what happens when you are no longer a threat in pro boxing; enter MMA. I love MMA, but seriously, in order to be taken as a legit sport, you cannot have just any person jumping ship. It does not make sense. Boxing would never allow this. Period!
You will never see a young top ten pro boxer in MMA, because simply, the economics of boxing are still stronger; they will make more money in the ring verses the cage. Only when the fighter is long in the tooth, and a former shell of what he once was, does he enter the MMA world. Toney will not apply the time and work to learn ground fighting skills.
I mean, look at Herschel Walker. He is 47, albeit in good shape, but he would never get a chance to enter a pro boxing ring. Butterbean? Please! All of the boxers of have fought in MMA in recent years were not top 10 caliber.
If MMA, especially the UFC, would like to continue more widespread success, instead of a farsical comedy, then they need to only offer contracts to the best fighters whether they are (top 10 pro) boxers or wrestlers.
Let's keep it real.
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Post #19 3/18/10 5:19:34PM
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Pookie
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 742-383
Season: 36-14 (#183)
Location: NorCal
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Posted by jarod1005
Well, first off, Toney is 41 years old. That being stated, he would still beat any MMA fighter standing. The ground will be difficult unless he has some well-rounded takedown defense skills. You see, this is what happens when you are no longer a threat in pro boxing; enter MMA. I love MMA, but seriously, in order to be taken as a legit sport, you cannot have just any person jumping ship. It does not make sense. Boxing would never allow this. Period!
Umm... you know that Toney is going back and forth between the two, proving your assertion that boxing would never do this to be totally inaccurate and a complete assumption.
Secondly, Do you not remember Roy Jones trying to secure Anderson Silva for a boxing match?
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Post #20 3/18/10 7:11:10PM
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Pookie
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 742-383
Season: 36-14 (#183)
Location: NorCal
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Posted by cmill21
You guys are crazy. Anderson and BJ look great against guys who have trained boxing mixed in with other things, they do not face guys like Toney or Buakaw on the reg. It's a different game, mma fighters stand with these guys and they go down, thats the way it plays out for the most part. I can't believe how arrogant mma fans have become. MMA hasn't come so far that the JJ guys have passed the pure JJ guys outside of it, and the stand up has definetly not come to the level of K-1 and boxing, sorry boys.
But you must admit, If a boxer went over to k-1 the kicks would destroy their base and ultimately prove their attempts at crossing over futile.
Any top striker in MMA with kicks will be able to do the exact same thing to any boxer/person who doesnt know how to check a kick.
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Post #21 3/18/10 7:13:11PM
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jiujitsufreak74
,,[],, *******,,[],,
Career record: 672-359
Season: 38-12 (#64)
Location: selden, new york
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the UFC signed Toney to shut him up. yes he is a good fighter, one of the greatest boxers to ever compete, but at the end of the day Toney was doing more damage out of the UFC than he was in the UFC. all his bitching about Dana, the UFC and MMA in general was put to a stop as soon as he was signed. it was a win-in for the UFC; it got Toney to shut up, plus it provides some very itneresting match ups that will gain a lot of viewers
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Post #22 3/18/10 7:43:49PM
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jarod1005
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 0-0
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location:
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Umm... you know that Toney is going back and forth between the two, proving your assertion that boxing would never do this to be totally inaccurate and a complete assumption.
Secondly, Do you not remember Roy Jones trying to secure Anderson Silva for a boxing match?
Again, Toney is doing this because their is no more room for him in boxing. He can't even get a fight with one of the Klitschoko brothers. No one in the U.S. wants to see them fight either. This is the main reason for the majority of their last several fights being staged in Europe. They are not a draw in Vegas; if so, they would have fought someone by now, there.
Yep, I do remember thatJones and Silva wanted to go at it in a boxing ring. But again, this was just a few years ago. Jones is waaaaaaaay past his good day. No names have beaten him since 2004. I mentioned if a pro boxer were in their respected prime years, then, they would not have an interest in MMA and/or a boxing bout with an MMA fighter (i.e. Silva).
If Toney is fighting in MMA today, it is because he cannot make any money in boxing; he is no longer a draw. If Toney were 24 years old, he would not have had an interest in the UFC.
If he is willing to learn some takedown defense, then he will be okay. But if he is just going to stand in there and expect for a fighter to not take him down, then he will have a much difficult time. He may need 1-1.5 years of takedown defense training with top-notch wrestlers before stepping into the cage to be a legitimate threat to anyone.
Last edited 3/19/10 4:31PM by jarod1005
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #23 3/19/10 11:02:17AM
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Jackelope
Go ahead, MOD my day
Career record: 586-330
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Getting choked out or arm barred
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Posted by jarod1005
He can't even get a fight with one of the Klitschoko brothers.
LOL you make it sound like getting a fight with the champs should be easy. That's the exact equivalent of saying "He can't even get a fight with Brock Lesnar"
Anyways, I don't totally disagree with all of your points but you can't expect a comment like this to be taken seriously.
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Post #24 3/19/10 1:35:10PM
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jarod1005
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 0-0
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location:
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It has to be taken seriously. How long has Toney been around? Also, I believe that Emanuel Steward once said that he did not want to be apart of a James Toney vs. Wladimir Klitschoko bout. The Klitschoko's fights are predominantly stage in another continent for good reason. There is no draw for them in Vegas; hence, no PPV. The Klitschoko fights are on ("free") HBO. There is no money to be made with them. This is one of the main why boxing is receding. Boxing does not have an (American) heavyweight contender that the public wants to see.
At least, if Arum, or whomever promotes who, could set a bout between Toney and one of the Klitschoko's, then certainly, it would be PPV driven. But there is nothing there to be made of. If you cannot bring 'em to the gates to attract PPV, there is simply no interest. Hence, no money to be made. Do you think if Dana White put UFC 111, 112, 113,114, 115, 116, etc. and so on with the big name fighters on Spike TV, he could make real money? Hell no! He on occasion does it, but not too often in a year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wladimir_Klitschko
The link will give an intinerary of the fights of Wladimir Klitschoko. Outside of a handfull in New York and a couple in Vegas, the majority or in Europe. I have seen the mass-majority of the fights...... and they were all on HBO.
James Toney has had more PPV fights in recent years than the Klitschoko's. The bottom line is that Toney should have already gotten a fight with the Klitschoko's when he fought at heavyweight.
If the promoters wanted to make the fight, they would have.
Last edited 3/19/10 4:38PM by jarod1005
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #25 3/19/10 4:29:33PM
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Pookie
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 742-383
Season: 36-14 (#183)
Location: NorCal
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But they didnt, because boxing is full of the political nonsense that you asserted boxing doesnt allow in your first post.
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Post #26 3/19/10 7:38:54PM
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