Tuchscherer vs Hague is a prime example of MMA's flawed scoring system . |
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AnDeRsonDaSiLvA
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If I had to use the current scoring system , this is how I would of judged the fight.
Round 1 : Each guy does very little to noticeable take the round , i think tuchsherer had the slight advantage , 10-9 tuchsherer .
Round 2 : Each guy does very little to noticable take the round , i cant give this round to anyone , 10-10 (yes 10-10 rounds do exist under the 10 point must , but are very rare)
Round 3 : hague no doubt takes the 3rd round , does not do enough to warrant a 10-8 round , 10-9 hague .
Final score : 29-29 Draw
After watching the fight as a whole , theres no way you can call this fight a draw , but by the current scoring system you have to call it a draw.
Half points would of fixed this fights outcome , as well as countless other fights ( ie: 10-9.5)
With allowed half points , this is how i would of judged it .
Round 1: 10-9.5 tuchsherer
Round 2: 10-10
Round 3: 10-9 hague
Final score : 29.5-29 Hague , the right man wins and the fans go home happy .
Discuss
Last edited 2/11/10 1:54AM by andersondasilva
Edit note/reason: n/a
3 total post edits
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Post #1 2/11/10 1:10:37AM
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karn501
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Posted by AnDeRsonDaSiLvA
Round 2 : Each guy does very little to noticable take the round , i cant give this round to anyone , 10-10 (yes 10-10 rounds do exist under the 10 point must , but are very rare)
are you sure because it says round winner 10 loser 9 or less
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Post #2 2/11/10 1:14:56AM
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AnDeRsonDaSiLvA
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from wikipedia
One notable exception where a 10:10 round did dictate the fight result is the 2003 bout between Ian Freeman and Vernon White. The fight was scored 30-27, 28-29, 29-29 with the final scorecard including a 10:10 round.
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Post #3 2/11/10 1:22:50AM
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karn501
In Full Mount
Career record: 97-69
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wow crazy I never knew that could happen
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Post #4 2/11/10 2:27:28AM
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MODulation
Career record: 710-410
Season: 35-15 (#347)
Location: Portland via Iowa
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Actually, since your assessment of the first and second round is the same the fight didn't have to be a draw under the current rules. You could have scored the fight 10-10, 10-10, 10-9 and that would have more accurately conveyed how you saw the fight take place.
The 10 point must system is fine... it is just that we need more 10-10 rounds and more 10-8/10-7 rounds to make it work correctly.
Instead of judges looking for the slightest hint of who won a very close round, a very close round should be given a score of 10-10. 10-9 should be given in rounds where there was a clear advantage for someone. 10-8 should be given more often to fighters who clearly dominate a round, and a 10-7 should be used in the rare instance where a fighter completely dominates the round and does everything but finish a fighter during the round.
I know those definitions are a little vague and could be refined, but the crux of the argument is that the 10 point must system is more than capable of scoring an mma match when it is properly used. The idea that 10-10 rounds are undesirable or don't exist has been around US mma for a while but have no basis in the unified rules and if anything are the result of promoters not liking "draws".
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Post #5 2/11/10 3:04:27AM
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AnDeRsonDaSiLvA
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Great post as usual Ncordless TTT
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Post #6 2/11/10 3:44:20AM
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king_katool
Belt Contender
Career record: 256-188
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i think they should just judge the fight as awhole, i realize this would mean the later rounds would be fresh in the judges mind, but with the proper judges who can remember the first rounds i think this scoring system would work fine, this is a fight after all, the winner shouldnt be able to steal the round a few times with a TD in the last 20 secs and come away with a win but looking like mashed potatoes
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Post #7 2/11/10 4:03:07AM
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gsp69
MMA Regular
Career record: 276-219
Season: 27-13 (#2051)
Location: north east england
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Posted by ncordless
The 10 point must system is fine... it is just that we need more 10-10 rounds and more 10-8/10-7 rounds to make it work correctly.
Instead of judges looking for the slightest hint of who won a very close round, a very close round should be given a score of 10-10. 10-9 should be given in rounds where there was a clear advantage for someone. 10-8 should be given more often to fighters who clearly dominate a round, and a 10-7 should be used in the rare instance where a fighter completely dominates the round and does everything but finish a fighter during the round.
this would sort the scoring out no end, just hav the judges fully utilise the ample scoring system thats already in place!
more 10-10s, 10-8s and 10-7s
sorted!! 
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Post #8 2/11/10 4:50:52AM
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gsp69
MMA Regular
Career record: 276-219
Season: 27-13 (#2051)
Location: north east england
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i just hit 50-45 machida???? wtf! my bad!!
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Post #9 2/11/10 4:53:14AM
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postman
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 564-321
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Delmont ,Pa
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Posted by ncordless
Actually, since your assessment of the first and second round is the same the fight didn't have to be a draw under the current rules. You could have scored the fight 10-10, 10-10, 10-9 and that would have more accurately conveyed how you saw the fight take place.
The 10 point must system is fine... it is just that we need more 10-10 rounds and more 10-8/10-7 rounds to make it work correctly.
Instead of judges looking for the slightest hint of who won a very close round, a very close round should be given a score of 10-10. 10-9 should be given in rounds where there was a clear advantage for someone. 10-8 should be given more often to fighters who clearly dominate a round, and a 10-7 should be used in the rare instance where a fighter completely dominates the round and does everything but finish a fighter during the round.
I know those definitions are a little vague and could be refined, but the crux of the argument is that the 10 point must system is more than capable of scoring an mma match when it is properly used. The idea that 10-10 rounds are undesirable or don't exist has been around US mma for a while but have no basis in the unified rules and if anything are the result of promoters not liking "draws".
Really the Vagueness of your system is perfect for me its excatly how I score fights. The more verbage you add the more overthinking it will cause. Look at the fight and decided.
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Post #10 2/11/10 7:44:40AM
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AchillesHeel
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 594-345
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Location: In the cheap seats.
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Posted by karn501
are you sure because it says round winner 10 loser 9 or less
"It" being Mike Goldberg. Try not to listen to Mike Goldberg.
Posted by ncordless
[what ncordless wrote]
Exactly.
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Post #11 2/11/10 8:31:49AM
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prozacnation1978
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 720-362
Season: 36-14 (#165)
Location: san diego
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chris got me 22 hot bout points!!!!
but i do agree system sucks, but what sucks worst is a guy losing a razor thin decsion then getting cut after it, poor hague!!!
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Post #12 2/11/10 11:26:42AM
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sbulldavid
MMA Sensei
Career record: 569-323
Season: 39-11 (#69)
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Whether anybody likes it or not it's unlikely anything will change. I've seen bad decisions like that , but Rua vs Machida was insane , No way in hell Machida won more than 1 round , granted Rua only won 2 . It all comes down to judge accountability . 10-10's are in the rule book, I'd rather see a draw , than have the wrong guy walk out with a victory.
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Post #13 2/11/10 11:33:14AM
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jiujitsufreak74
,,[],, *******,,[],,
Career record: 672-359
Season: 38-12 (#64)
Location: selden, new york
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I agree with ncordless that it is more of a problem with implementing the system than with the system itself. i have had a problem with the judges for a long time now, and i think if we had more educated judges that implemented the system as ncordless described there wouldn't be nearly as many problems.
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Post #14 2/11/10 12:02:32PM
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