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UFC Sponsor Hoelzer Reich, Neo-Nazi sympathizers?

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IriShame

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Found this to be interesting:

Jamie Vine of Hoelzer Reich has e-mailed me and asked me to clarify a few things regarding their company and the ties to neo-Nazis as has been written about previously. The company became the subject of much debate following the news that Joe Brammer would be walking out at The Ultimate Fighter Finale wearing a Hoelzer Reich shirt.

LINK

Post #1   12/7/09 8:09:26PM   

roadking95th

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This story started out kind of silly, imo. However, after reading several more articles, the UFC made a big mistake in allowing this company on tv.

One thing I always found to be odd is that this imagery can solicit a response like this, and rightfully so, and communist symbols do not. Why do you suppose that to be?

Post #2   12/7/09 8:59:17PM   

fullfighting

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People should be proud of who or what they are, no matter what it is. Viva La Raza, does that offend you too?

Post #3   12/7/09 9:43:51PM   

postman

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Posted by fullfighting

People should be proud of who or what they are, no matter what it is. Viva La Raza, does that offend you too?



If who you are is racsist the truthfuly you should be ashamed.

Post #4   12/7/09 9:49:37PM   

fullfighting

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I'm not racist but people are free to believe what ever they want and you can't stop them.

Post #5   12/7/09 9:52:34PM   

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Posted by roadking95th
One thing I always found to be odd is that this imagery can solicit a response like this, and rightfully so, and communist symbols do not. Why do you suppose that to be?




“History is written by the victors.” Winston Churchill

It seems kinda obvious to me that HR is nazi.....And being a nazi isn't like being asian or black...It's an ideological choice based in fear and ignorance...


Post #6   12/7/09 10:04:55PM   

roadking95th

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I have no problem with the iron cross and such. The connections of this company and some of the products they apparently used to sell are blatantly Nazi apparel.

Yes La Raza, if it is the Mexican/Latino group I believe it to be ( the one I am thinking of), is a very racist group. But somehow they get a pass.

EDIT: Looked it up. I was thinking of MEChA, though many of their "former" members are in La Raza and/or endorsed by.

Last edited 12/7/09 10:13PM server time by roadking95th
Edit note/reason: n/a

Post #7   12/7/09 10:07:24PM   

roadking95th

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Posted by soundboy1


Posted by roadking95th
One thing I always found to be odd is that this imagery can solicit a response like this, and rightfully so, and communist symbols do not. Why do you suppose that to be?




“History is written by the victors.” Winston Churchill

It seems kinda obvious to me that HR is nazi.....And being a nazi isn't like being asian or black...It's an ideological choice based in fear and ignorance...





I don't get how this answers the question. Yes, the Nazi's lost. Hopefully any sane preson would still find those symbols disturbing even if they conquered Europe. Heck, one can go on many campuses and cities and find plenty of communist symbols on tshirts and such. Che, red star, hammer and sickle, etc... Please note that Communist China, USSR, and Cambodia killed way more citizens than Hitler ever did. How are they acceptable? They didn't conquer the West.

Back on subject. Just read the link and the links found in that article and one will see that this company isn't as innocent as it says it is. Hey, wear what you want to wear. It makes it all the easier to pick out the idiots. German heritage is fine. I am half german. However, Nazi symbols, SS bars, identical SS skulls, etc.. are not a coincedent.

Post #8   12/7/09 10:20:45PM   

soundboy1

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Well the point of the quote is the commies won! Throughout the 20th century they suppressed the evidence of their genocides where as the nazis lost the war and all of their atrocities were exposed....
THe commies were able to completely rewrite their own history and over time they had a more sympathetic image..that's my 2cents..

Post #9   12/7/09 10:43:47PM   

IriShame

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Posted by soundboy1

Well the point of the quote is the commies won! Throughout the 20th century they suppressed the evidence of their genocides where as the nazis lost the war and all of their atrocities were exposed....
THe commies were able to completely rewrite their own history and over time they had a more sympathetic image..that's my 2cents..



I would also point out that communism is a form of government shared by many different countries at many different points in time with somewhat different ideologies associated with each one. Some of them being more guilty than others of what we would consider "atrocities".

Nazi's however, are confined to one specific country at one specific point in time and definetly with one specific ideology. That ideology is associated with probably one of, if not the most, infamous atrocities in human history.

I found it interesting that the UFC would be willing to give screen time to ANY organization that would have ANY affiliation with such an ideology as the one promoted by Nazi's or the Neo-Nazi movement, however loose that affiliation might be.

Post #10   12/7/09 10:55:37PM   

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Posted by fullfighting

I'm not racist but people are free to believe what ever they want and you can't stop them.



I agree completely.

I only thought it interesting that the UFC, a company interested in profit, would take the chance of offending so many people by indirectly promoting a company with these kinds of questionable affilitations.

Post #11   12/7/09 10:58:21PM   

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Posted by IriShame

I only thought it interesting that the UFC, a company interested in profit, would take the chance of offending so many people by indirectly promoting a company with these kinds of questionable affilitations.



It looks like HR has been covering their tracks...I fully expect to never see them on a UFC broadcast again with all of the evidence coming to surface.

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Post #12   12/7/09 11:06:42PM   

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On the Communism-Nazi debate...I think it's because Communism is an ideology that started off with no intent to murder, while Hitler and the Nazi's pre planned mass murder. General estimates from Stalins reign(still the worst communist leader with regards to murder) are still not entirely known, i've heard estimates ranging from 5-40 million so I guess that may be a reason as well.

Post #13   12/7/09 11:53:16PM   

IriShame

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Posted by cmill21

On the Communism-Nazi debate...I think it's because Communism is an ideology that started off with no intent to murder, while Hitler and the Nazi's pre planned mass murder. General estimates from Stalins reign(still the worst communist leader with regards to murder) are still not entirely known, i've heard estimates ranging from 5-40 million so I guess that may be a reason as well.



How many of those 5-40 million could be directly attributed to Stalins ties with Nazi Germany I wonder?

Post #14   12/8/09 12:44:10AM   

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Posted by IriShame


Posted by cmill21

On the Communism-Nazi debate...I think it's because Communism is an ideology that started off with no intent to murder, while Hitler and the Nazi's pre planned mass murder. General estimates from Stalins reign(still the worst communist leader with regards to murder) are still not entirely known, i've heard estimates ranging from 5-40 million so I guess that may be a reason as well.



How many of those 5-40 million could be directly attributed to Stalins ties with Nazi Germany I wonder?



Some, but many more are attributed to his forced starvation of the Ukrainian peasantry and the purges of the '30s.

The Soviets were also very hard on the Germans once they went to war with the Nazis and turned the tide, but nobody really counts that because everyone in WWII, including the US, inflicted significant civilian casualties on their enemies.

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Post #15   12/8/09 12:51:44AM   
 
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