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Anthony Johnson: After I hurt Koscheck, he needed some kind of excuse to recover

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FINAL WARNING

Any more accusations that Kos "cheated" will be dealt with via warning or some time off from posting.

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Post #31   11/22/09 5:33:54PM   

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There isn't a rule for illegal attepmts, now is there?? Come on people, it doesn't matter that he threw the knee because it didn't land, it hit his arm and that is a LEGAL strike (it hit his arm and his arm was not against his face when it was struck so the only force he woul dhave felt was his own arm coming back but no direct impact or force from the knee). Kos got a huge break, because he got hurt before that moment with a shot and saw a moment and took it. I've watched the replay many times DVR is a wonderful thing and nothing hits his left eye not even his own arm. The fight should have resumed right away after the Dr. checked him out, because the only true stoppage there would have been an eye poke and that was iffy and on an eye poke you are not permited five minutes to recover, check the rules you can ethier continue or not, you can't tell the Dr. your vision is blurry or double and not expect him to stop the fight. The ref told the dr he had 5 minutes, to recover and the Dr. disagreed, but was the refs ultimate call (this is why I would favor instant replay in MMA once a foul has occured the ref could call it then, the foul could be checked to be sure that's what actually happened since real time in fights can be to quick to see some things)

I didn't really see the first eye poke, but I believe the second was blatant, halfway through the strike his hand opens up, So what does a fighter throwing that strike think is going to happen?? That 2nd eye poke was a douche move regardless. You can't hate on Kos for taking Rumble down, since he hit hit AJ with 3 or 4 his his best strike the over hand right and Johnson not be phased, it was the o nly smart thing to do and it worked out with a choke. WHoever said kos took Johnsons best shot and it didn't hurt him, is a fool he got rocked pretty good and that was the pre-cursor to the whole phantom knee, if Kos took Johnsons best shot and it didn't hurt him, he would have never taken him down, because he likes his newly found striking abilities to much.

IMO the Dr. should have stopped the fight, weather or not the knee hit matters not, once you tell the Dr. your vision is misconstruded in anyway it is their responsibility to protect the fighter and every other righter that has ever told the ref their vision is blurry or doubled the fight is automatically stopped, so I don't understand why the Dr. aloud it to continue with a fighter having blurred vision

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Post #32   11/22/09 5:35:55PM   

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wow, yes, it did land, it was an illegal knee. having his arm up doesn't change that, the impact still goes straight to the head. It was a blatantly illegal knee, I'm absolutely flabbergasted that anyone is even trying to make the argument that it wasn't.

Please get your facts straight before you start calling people morons. Or better yet, don't call them morons at all. Make your argument without ad-hominem attacks.

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Post #33   11/22/09 5:44:11PM   

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Posted by Aether

Please get your facts straight before you start calling people morons. Or better yet, don't call them morons at all. Make your argument without ad-hominem attacks.


Not to mention the fact that it's against the rules of the site.

Let's be adults here.

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Post #34   11/22/09 5:49:27PM   

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Posted by Aether

wow, yes, it did land, it was an illegal knee. having his arm up doesn't change that, the impact still goes straight to the head. It was a blatantly illegal knee, I'm absolutely flabbergasted that anyone is even trying to make the argument that it wasn't.

wow.



If the Knee hits the arm and not the head then how is it illegal? I can't understand the "what's if's" about this......the knee clearly didn't land on Koschecks head and if you don't realize that then watch it again over and over again.

Everyone wants to jump on AJ throwing an illegal knee, but that was in the heat of the moment when Kos looked like he was getting up, and once again, the kneed didn't land on the head, doesn't matter what the intention is.......it matters what the actual foul is. I'm not going to go as low as some and say that Koscheck's eyepokes were intentional, but at the same time he has done that before. He uses that pawing jab to set up his big right hand and he needs to be more careful and keep his hand closed.

I really think the eyepokes played an outcome in AJ's sudden downfall in the 2nd. Props to Kos tho, he landed some great GNP which led to the choke.

I'm one of those people who was left unsatisfied with that fight. I picked AJ to win, but I'm not a fan of his...I'd just love to see it again.

I'm not here to get into a pissing war, this is just my .02. Take it or leave it.

Post #35   11/22/09 5:52:37PM   

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Posted by Aether

Oh for god's sake, here we go. This thing where people accuse fighters of acting when they take illegal strikes is really inappropriate IMO. The knee was BLATANTLY illegal. How can anyone even question it? Whether his arm was between the knee and the head is irrelevant, the rule isn't "no knees to the head of a downed opponent unless he's blocking them" it was a flagrant foul, he had no reason to act an eyepoke because he clearly took an illegal knee and had a right to take his 5 minutes as a result. The eye was a completely secondary issue and had nothing to do with the point deduction or the stoppage.

What would have changed if there was no issue with his eye? Would the knee suddenly become legal? No. What possible benefit could pretending his eye was hurt have given him? He gets time to recover from the knee and Johnson gets a point deducted either way.



I'm not gonna get into the heated debate about what would've happened in 14 different scenarios...but the knee was perfectly legal. The knee landed on the arm, so it doesn't matter where it was intended. Unless it happens, there's no foul. I'm absolutely amazed by some of the logic I've read throughout this thread. Is the ref supposed to start docking points for "conspiracy" to strike a downed opponent with a knee?

If the knee didn't hit, you must acquit.

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Post #36   11/22/09 5:53:04PM   

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the knee did hit. The impact goes straight to the head, if you put your arm in front of your face and someone knees you full force on the arm, the impact is ultimately absorbed by the head. The rule isn't there as a funny little technicality, it's there for the fighters' safety, if the blow causes impact on his head, it's foolish to say "oh, technicality, sorry keep going pal" watch his head snap back. The force of the blow is clearly absorbed by the head.

Calling that knee legal is saying that fighters shouldn't try to protect themselves from illegal strikes because the fighter will be let off on a technicality. The rule is there for the safety of the fighter, and that logic is completely counter-intuitive. Should fighters keep their arms at their sides and allow themselves to be kneed square in the face because if they partially block the strike it will suddenly become legal?

That makes no sense. Again, the impact is clearly transferred straight to the head. Whether he put his arm up to cushion the blow has no bearing. What you're proposing is very dangerous to fighters' safety.

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Post #37   11/22/09 6:01:33PM   

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honestly guys, go into your gym if you train, put your arm on your forehead, get on your knees, and tell someone to knee you as hard as they can in the arm, and tell me that the impact isn't directly absorbed by your head.

The rule is there for the safety of the fighter, it's really foolish to argue this technicality.

Post #38   11/22/09 6:11:50PM   

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Joe Rogan was yelling about the knee hitting Kos in the eye until he looked at the one angle that showed otherwise then he changed his tune. The ref could have been at the angle where it looked like it hit and called it. Hit or not the ref called it as a hit. Kos did some amatuer acting, took the time allowed and came back to beat Johnson. End of story. And yeah.......it was exciting to watch Johnson get his arrogant ass schooled on the ground..

Post #39   11/22/09 6:24:22PM   

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I don't understand all the fighting over weather a knee did or didn't land.

Now weather the knee landed or not the ref and the doctor both made bad calls. The only time a fighter gets time to recover is for a low blow. He can have the doctor check the eye and if the fighter says he cant see or vision is blurred the fight should be stopped. But the doctor didn't do his job and got in to a debate about the rules which he was right but that isn't his job. When the doctor finally makes his call weather the fighter can go on the fight restarts right then or ends. You don't get 5 mins to recover or any amount of time.

Now would this have changed the outcome of the fight most likely would have been declared a no contest or DQ. You want someone to be upset with be mad at the Ref and the Doc who both failed at their jobs. Not KOS or AJ they both gave it their best and put on a good fight. Weather you like the outcome or not KOS did a really good job standing and on the ground and AJ just got out worked.

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Post #40   11/22/09 6:27:02PM   

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Posted by Aether

the knee did hit. The impact goes straight to the head, if you put your arm in front of your face and someone knees you full force on the arm, the impact is ultimately absorbed by the head. The rule isn't there as a funny little technicality, it's there for the fighters' safety, if the blow causes impact on his head, it's foolish to say "oh, technicality, sorry keep going pal" watch his head snap back. The force of the blow is clearly absorbed by the head.

Calling that knee legal is saying that fighters shouldn't try to protect themselves from illegal strikes because the fighter will be let off on a technicality. The rule is there for the safety of the fighter, and that logic is completely counter-intuitive. Should fighters keep their arms at their sides and allow themselves to be kneed square in the face because if they partially block the strike it will suddenly become legal?

That makes no sense. Again, the impact is clearly transferred straight to the head. Whether he put his arm up to cushion the blow has no bearing. What you're proposing is very dangerous to fighters' safety.



I'm not suggesting that fighters shouldn't protect themselves...I'm not sure where I may have insinuated that either. The thing about rules is...there's a specific line drawn. More often than not, rules are very specific, so there is no need for interpretation. For example, the legal drinking age for the US is 21...I can't imagine that the ramifications of a 20 year old would be any worse (not measurably anyway) than someone who is 21, but the line was drawn, so hence it's illegal. A better example would be when a fighter is getting up from the ground and still has a hand on the mat. He is still considered a downed opponent. If he were to lift his hand an inch off of the ground, the damage is no less from a kick or knee to the head, but the strike is now legal. Of coarse nobody wants to endanger the fighters, but rules are rules. You can't just read between the lines and begin making your own amendments. There is no stipulation about the transfer of energy. I'm curious to know where that is in the rule book. I know on a couple of occasions we've seen someone curled up in a ball on the ground and take a knee to the shoulder (where the impact was transferred to the head), but alas the ref didn't do anything...because it was legal. In fact the only reason why the ref called a penalty last night was because he thought he saw the knee connect with the head, just like most people watching at home did. The only difference is, we had the benefit of a slow motion replay, where he didn't.

If you want to look at it another way. The rule says "knee strikes to the head of a downed opponent" are illegal. If the criteria is met for the following two conditions, then the move is illegal:

1) the opponent is down
2) the knee strikes his head

Cut and dry, just as most rules are. In fact, aside from intelligent defense ( which really has no black/white definition, the intention is to make them easy to understand and not to be subjective in nature. By "your" definition, it becomes illegal by the process of the impact transferring through the arm and into the head. OK, lets open this can of worms. What if he hit the arm, but the arm only grazed the head? Is it still illegal? What percentage of the impact must transfer in order for it to be illegal? What if there was a 3 inch gap between the arm and the head, yet the arm was hit with enough force that it flew up and hit the head. Still illegal? What if his arm is out to the side and it gets kneed hard enough to cause it to swing around and make him poke himself in the eye? Does the striker get warned for an eye poke as well? You see how silly it is when you break it down?

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Post #41   11/22/09 6:42:15PM   

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Posted by telnights

I don't understand all the fighting over weather a knee did or didn't land.

Now weather the knee landed or not the ref and the doctor both made bad calls. The only time a fighter gets time to recover is for a low blow. He can have the doctor check the eye and if the fighter says he cant see or vision is blurred the fight should be stopped. But the doctor didn't do his job and got in to a debate about the rules which he was right but that isn't his job. When the doctor finally makes his call weather the fighter can go on the fight restarts right then or ends. You don't get 5 mins to recover or any amount of time.

Now would this have changed the outcome of the fight most likely would have been declared a no contest or DQ. You want someone to be upset with be mad at the Ref and the Doc who both failed at their jobs. Not KOS or AJ they both gave it their best and put on a good fight. Weather you like the outcome or not KOS did a really good job standing and on the ground and AJ just got out worked.



This is 100% incorrect. You really think that a fighter doesn't get time to recover for eyepokes or illegal knees/kicks to the head, and ONLY for groin strikes? That really makes no sense. Do you genuinely think that a fighter who takes an illegal knee to the head gets NO time to recover?

http://www.leg.state.nv.us/NAC/NAC-467.html#NAC467Sec7964

Nevadas rules

http://www.state.nj.us/lps/sacb/docs/martial.html

NJ rules

Both state that a fighter on the receiving end of ANY foul gets time to recover, no more than 5 minutes, this includes knees to the head, eyepokes, and any other foul you can name.

Come on guys. Some of the arguments being thrown out here are just plain ridiculous.

Post #42   11/22/09 6:42:26PM   

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Posted by Aether


Posted by telnights

I don't understand all the fighting over weather a knee did or didn't land.

Now weather the knee landed or not the ref and the doctor both made bad calls. The only time a fighter gets time to recover is for a low blow. He can have the doctor check the eye and if the fighter says he cant see or vision is blurred the fight should be stopped. But the doctor didn't do his job and got in to a debate about the rules which he was right but that isn't his job. When the doctor finally makes his call weather the fighter can go on the fight restarts right then or ends. You don't get 5 mins to recover or any amount of time.

Now would this have changed the outcome of the fight most likely would have been declared a no contest or DQ. You want someone to be upset with be mad at the Ref and the Doc who both failed at their jobs. Not KOS or AJ they both gave it their best and put on a good fight. Weather you like the outcome or not KOS did a really good job standing and on the ground and AJ just got out worked.



This is 100% incorrect. You really think that a fighter doesn't get time to recover for eyepokes or illegal knees/kicks to the head, and ONLY for groin strikes? That really makes no sense. Do you genuinely think that a fighter who takes an illegal knee to the head gets NO time to recover?

http://www.leg.state.nv.us/NAC/NAC-467.html#NAC467Sec7964

Nevadas rules

http://www.state.nj.us/lps/sacb/docs/martial.html

NJ rules

Both state that a fighter on the receiving end of ANY foul gets time to recover, no more than 5 minutes, this includes knees to the head, eyepokes, and any other foul you can name.

Come on guys. Some of the arguments being thrown out here are just plain ridiculous.





HAHAHAHAHA
thnk you for saving me the time to do that myself

Post #43   11/22/09 6:44:13PM   

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Posted by Aether

honestly guys, go into your gym if you train, put your arm on your forehead, get on your knees, and tell someone to knee you as hard as they can in the arm, and tell me that the impact isn't directly absorbed by your head.

The rule is there for the safety of the fighter, it's really foolish to argue this technicality.



Who needs a knee...ask someone to punch you in the face. It's still not safe...but it doesn't change the rules. If you've read the rules for anything other than what they say, you are assuming way to much. i.e. You can't stomp an opponent is a rule. You can kick him to the body all you want. You can throw 15 axe kicks to the body...the ref won't say a thing. If it's not a stomp, then it's NOT a stomp. Same situation, different rule.

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Post #44   11/22/09 6:47:39PM   

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heh, you guys can argue semantics and make up rules all you want, you're wrong, there's the rules for you to read. The fight was rightfully stopped, and the strike was clearly illegal. The impact of the blow landed directly on the head, and yes a fighter taking an illegal strike does get time to recover.

I guess you can believe whatever you would like to believe, the fight was rightfully stopped and he was rightfully given time to recover.

As bad as I think the officiating often is, I am really, really glad that some of you guys are not refs, because the things you're alleging are wrong and downright dangerous. Truly, thank god you aren't in charge of interpreting the rules, because wow.

I'm truly blown away by some of these comments. wow. Fighter safety isn't subject to semantics and technicalities, let's get real. You clearly won't be dissuaded from your opinion which revolves around a really silly technicality, if you were a ref and allowed that strike you would be in some trouble. I'm not going to bother trying to convince anyone anymore, I've laid the logic out plainly for everyone to read, any further discussion on my part would be entirely fruitless.

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Post #45   11/22/09 6:49:40PM   
 
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