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For Those Still Loyal To The Dragon

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Aaronno9

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I think the main reason people have been abit tough on Machida after 104 is that they simply dont realise how good Shogun is. Most fans only see him as the guy who gassed after 2 minutes then lost to Forrest, put in a sloppy preformance against Coleman, and beat an over the hill Chuck in a fight where we didnt get to see if he could go more than one round. Not the absolute wrecking machine who spent 3 1/2 years demolishing top guys in pride.

When Shoguns on top of his game, he can beat anybody at 205. Including Lyoto. But when Lyotos on top of his game, he can beat anybody including Shogun. They're both really incredible fighters. I just cant wait for round 2!!!

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Post #16   11/13/09 6:26:21PM   

BustedKnuckle

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Machida is STILL undeafeated right!!!??? Lyoto is far from being "figured out". I'll take any avatar bet that says other wise! WAR Machida

Post #17   11/13/09 8:42:49PM   

IriShame

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Posted by Aaronno9

Pretty bold thread considering Lyoto should of lost his last fight against Shogun. Hes been figured out once, its not totally unlikely it'll happen again. We'll see what happens when they meet again, but Ive got a sneak suspicion Shogun might finish him.

I think Anderson would beat him pretty convincingly to.



I don't think he's been "figured out". He didn't even lose! You can disagree with the judges all day, everyone is entitled to their opinion but I don't think it's fair to say he's been "figured out" and he's going to get finished next time. These are pro fighters, I'm sure Machida knows the mistakes he made that night and will correct them accordingly for the rematch.

Not taking anything away from Shogun, who is an amazing fighter, but I just think Machida is the best fighter in the 205 class. Maybe I'm wrong but until he actually loses a fight I'm unwilling to accept that his style has been solved.

I do agree however that Anderson would probably beat him, he's a superhuman.

Post #18   11/13/09 8:55:11PM   

Ordep

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Nah...Shogun beat him already.... hes just running away with the title (literally). Nothing against the "elusive" style but it is a shame now that he's the champ and based on the way judges see fights you need to go after him if you want to score a decision which is just what he wants, get in his trap. It'll take patience and precise striking to beat him, Shogun did that. The fact that he's "undefeated" doesn't mean that he hasn't been "figured out", Shogun just exposed him. I don't know what people say that was "different" in him that day, I just saw the guy backpedaling ALL the time waiting for counter, the only thing different was his opponent gameplan, he didn't perform "below what he used too" he just never got a chance to apply his best skills, again....just because his opponent was smarter and came prepared for that. Result, same old speech at the end "I will do better my next time....blah blah blah". He deserves his ranking just because because of course he's been beating everybody and so, but I'll like to see him fight forward if he knows how to do it.

Post #19   11/13/09 9:34:15PM   

EddieBowers

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It was a good fight to watch IMO. I think that to get the belt you need TKO, KO, or Sub the current champ... To truely become the new champ... just my 2 cents. As they all say... Never let it go to the judges.

Post #20   11/14/09 12:16:46AM   

RMFG_187

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Machida beat BJ Penn, not even fair, we KOd Rich, outside of the UFC. In the UFC the only greats he has beaten Rashad, and Tito. In my eyes that Shogun fight shouldn't count unless its a loss on Machidas end. I think that Rampage would tool Machida. Machida doesn't like to get hit, and all you have to do is put a fighter out there that is aggressive yet cautious and can land punches on the guy. Thats it, and thats Rampage. Oh and I would love to see the winner of Randy Vera to get a crack at him.

Post #21   11/14/09 1:42:47AM   

Aaronno9

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Posted by IriShame


Posted by Aaronno9

Pretty bold thread considering Lyoto should of lost his last fight against Shogun. Hes been figured out once, its not totally unlikely it'll happen again. We'll see what happens when they meet again, but Ive got a sneak suspicion Shogun might finish him.

I think Anderson would beat him pretty convincingly to.



I don't think he's been "figured out". He didn't even lose! You can disagree with the judges all day, everyone is entitled to their opinion but I don't think it's fair to say he's been "figured out" and he's going to get finished next time. These are pro fighters, I'm sure Machida knows the mistakes he made that night and will correct them accordingly for the rematch.

Not taking anything away from Shogun, who is an amazing fighter, but I just think Machida is the best fighter in the 205 class. Maybe I'm wrong but until he actually loses a fight I'm unwilling to accept that his style has been solved.

I do agree however that Anderson would probably beat him, he's a superhuman.



I dont think its fair to say just becouse he didnt loose he wasnt figured out. Mabeys he just wasnt on his game that night. Mabey he underestimated Shogun and came in with the wrong gameplan. The only thing im sure of is that Shogun had the right gameplan, and he did know how to beat Machida. It doesnt take long to look around the forums and see that 70-80% of the educated, neutral fans think Shogun should of been given the nod.

But even though he lost, you've got to think back to before the fight. I dont recall anybody at all saying Shogun would even last to a decision. The general opinion seemed t be he'd be finished before the 3rd round. Surely that in itself shows Shogun offered something to Machida that hardly anybody expected. Including, IMO, Lyoto himself.

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Post #22   11/14/09 6:44:23AM   

warglory

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Same old arguments against Machida, absolutely hilarious. He has only beaten Tito and Rashad, etc, etc, etc. I was a HUGE Machida fan when the majority of the people on this board were calling him boring, even when he wasn't necessarily finishing his fights. Now, all of a sudden he gets lucky in one fight (I also agree he should have lost to Shogun), and it would seem everyone thinks the dude is figured out and not the super hero he once was. Are you all forgetting Anderson had lost a few convincingly prior to coming to the UFC, and GSP suffered two painful losses also? Are we questioning whether or not GSP and Anderson are the two best in their divisions?

Lyoto should have lost, but to a guy who had only been on the rebound for one fight, injury or not. Lyoto has systematically dominated everyone he has fought with the exception of Shogun, and trust me, I give Shogun all the props in the world, BUT, Shogun's single performance, and the fact that he did lose in the eyes of the judges, was not enough to dethrone Machida as the #1 LHW in the world.

Shogun will get his rematch once Machida has healed up, and if Shogun can repeat his performance, then I will gracefully place him atop of the crop.

Last edited 11/14/09 11:19AM server time by warglory
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Post #23   11/14/09 11:17:28AM   

postman

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Posted by BustedKnuckle

Machida is STILL undeafeated right!!!??? Lyoto is far from being "figured out". I'll take any avatar bet that says other wise! WAR Machida



I'll take that bet, we set up a thread. Title will read Avatar bet between Postman and Bustedknuckle your vote counts! The poll question will read Did Shogun "Figure Out" Machida? Yes or No. I will now wait for you PM accepting the bet. You can make the terms only thing I ask no Gay avatrs.

Post #24   11/14/09 7:10:12PM   

Macheetah

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Been supporting Machida since he beat Penn and will always be supporting Machida. I don't get it, he just won his fight with Shogun and went 16-0, is that a reason to jump off of a bandwagon? He will be beating Shogun again in their rematch and will go 17-0.

War Dragon!

Post #25   11/14/09 9:36:31PM   

tepid55

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I would like to see Jon Jones face Machida at some point.

Post #26   11/14/09 10:47:22PM   

vomitshovel

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WOW lol you all say this, forgetting that these judges have been getting paid for YEARS to do their job.
They are the best of the best and like the fighters, are amazing at their job.
There are times when the flow of the fight is not condusive to the amount of blows landed, and so on. That is when it "seems" like shogun was forcing him into his game plan.
What my eyes saw the like 12 times ive watched that fight, is.....
Machida taking HEAVY leg and body damage, giving off the vibe that he was getting beaten up.
However as one of you mentioned, that you thought the judges didn't score leg kicks as high or w/e....
That is just judging fact, 1 solid punch to the head is worth more than lets say 2 or 3 leg kicks from an "against-the-cage" clinch, that is just common judging knowledge, as is the fact that solid DEFENDING scores too.
Look for defence points and it ALL goes to machida, IMO.
At the end of the day, Machida won, and it's NONE of our places to say "oh he shouldn't have" to a judge thats seen more MMA fights than you know exist with the combined knowledge of all your friends.

My entire point is, it was a BRILLIANT fight, very close in most aspects and the rightful winner won.
BTW i know youve probably heard this before but watch that fight without sound.
makes a HUUUUGE difference

Post #27   11/15/09 1:45:16AM   

vomitshovel

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Posted by Aaronno9

I think the main reason people have been abit tough on Machida after 104 is that they simply dont realise how good Shogun is. Most fans only see him as the guy who gassed after 2 minutes then lost to Forrest, put in a sloppy preformance against Coleman, and beat an over the hill Chuck in a fight where we didnt get to see if he could go more than one round. Not the absolute wrecking machine who spent 3 1/2 years demolishing top guys in pride.

When Shoguns on top of his game, he can beat anybody at 205. Including Lyoto. But when Lyotos on top of his game, he can beat anybody including Shogun. They're both really incredible fighters. I just cant wait for round 2!!!



WELL SAID that is EXAAAACTLY my point.

Post #28   11/15/09 1:48:48AM   

Aether

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I don't really think Machida lost fans, people just realize that he didn't win that fight. He didn't become a worse fighter all of a sudden, he's still easily in the top 2 at 205 and if he were to fight Shogun again it still wouldn't be an easy decision.

I try to approach scoring a fight from a completely objective point of view, and I think most knowledgeable fans try to do the same. I don't think anyone lost respect for Machida, they just don't agree with the decision. He still beats everyone else in the division easily IMO, and I would have to think about the rematch quite a bit.

Post #29   11/15/09 11:05:13AM   
 
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