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Thoughts after the Strike Force show

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mrsmiley

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1. It seems like the inside leg kick has become notorious for turning into the groin kick. But I wondered last night during the Moussasi/ Soku fight ; Perhaps, the inside leg kick doesn't hit the groin,but maybe the pain of getting kicked inside the leg stimulates pain that shoots up into the groin sometimes?
Making a fighter think he did get kicked in the nuts when he really didn't.
Thoughts?

2. this second point is one i've been pondering over ever since Marco Ruas fought Alexander Otsuka and resurfaced in my mind while watching Mayhem Miller slapping the RNC on Shields. I can't say this rule could be applied with 100% effectiveness(especially if Mazagatti is the referee),but I would like to see it attempted.
If a fighter secures a submission during the closing of the round,the referee can opt for an "extension" in the round.
Meaning, last night while Mayhem had the choke on shields the ref would have simply yelled out for an extension during those last 10 seconds.
Thus,though the round only has 10 seconds left,if shields could not escape the choke the round would extend until

A.Shields tapped out or went to sleep.

B.Shields was able to escape the submission.

After that the round would end.

I just hate to see a fighter land a submission only to see it stopped by the bell.
I can see a backlash from a strikers point of view on this when he is throwing flurries at the end of a round,but just thought I would throw it out their.

Last edited 11/8/09 4:56PM server time by ncordless
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Post #1   11/8/09 8:22:21AM   

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Well the inside leg kick does usually land on the groin because when you throw it you tend to open yourself up for a split second while doing your switch-step. This usually causes guys to move in for a strike, and thus move their groin forward a couple of inches.

I will say, though.. after you've been kicked in the junk it does seems like any kick to that area resonates in your cajones.

As for the extension- I'm against it. I think a fighter is to be aware of how much time is left via his corner or otherwise. If he can't get it done in that time it just adds more excitement to the match IMO.

Post #2   11/8/09 8:53:19AM   

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Why have an end to the round if it will just be extended? Might as well have no time-limit whatsoever. Or, as they do now, the rounds could end after 5 mins.
I'm a fan of the 5 min rounds with and ending after the time is up.

Post #3   11/8/09 9:37:20AM   

RyanC

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My first taste of Strikeforce was last night, and I thought it was pretty cool. I thought the coverage was good, the analysis from the commentators and announcers was very good. I still like Rogan a lot, but they did a better job than Goldberg in my opinion.

The ring entrances are a little bit too WWE for me. I didn't like the cat walk thing they had going on, and the platform they stood on before walking down. I hated Jason Miller's entrance, although I still Iike Mayhem. I know he's just kind of an oddball, so I left it at that.

I'm officially on the Fedor bandwagon. I've been kind of a hater of Fedor, but after reading an article on him in FIGHT! last month, and seeing him fight last night I've been converted. He's a warrior, and he seems like he's just an awesome person. Fighting, family, and faith. Gotta have respect for a man like that. Was still rooting for my hometown hero Brett Rogers last night, and I thought he had him, but Fedor hasn't lost a fight in 9 years for reason.

Mousasi impressed me quite a bit. Looked to be on the ropes a bit at times, but never panicked. Werdum eeked out a pretty crafty veteran win. Antonio Silva looked good though. Hopefully he bounces back. Jake Shields may officially be my least favorite fighter ever, and that's including Tito. Weakest, most boring strategy. He was nothing short of terrified to stay on the feet with Mayhem, and when he got him to the ground he did next to nothing with it.

Overall thought it was a good card, good fights, and I like the way Strikeforce has packaged the whole thing. I hope they can continue to improve the product.

Post #4   11/8/09 10:54:21AM   

SmileR

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My only real thoughts on the whole production of it were Strikeforce has a looong way to go before actually rivaling the UFC. The fights where awesome but the production and adverts where a joke. Just my opinion though.

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Post #5   11/8/09 11:02:59AM   

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Posted by mrsmiley



1. It seems like the inside leg kick has become notorious for turning into the groin kick. But I wondered last night during the Moussasi/ Soku fight ; Perhaps, the inside leg kick doesn't hit the groin,but maybe the pain of getting kicked inside the leg stimulates pain that shoots up into the groin sometimes?
Making a fighter think he did get kicked in the nuts when he really didn't.
Thoughts?

2. this second point is one i've been pondering over ever since Marco Ruas fought Alexander Otsuka and resurfaced in my mind while watching Mayhem Miller slapping the RNC on Shields. I can't say this rule could be applied with 100% effectiveness(especially if Mazagatti is the referee),but I would like to see it attempted.
If a fighter secures a submission during the closing of the round,the referee can opt for an "extension" in the round.
Meaning, last night while Mayhem had the choke on shields the ref would have simply yelled out for an extension during those last 10 seconds.
Thus,though the round only has 10 seconds left,if shields could not escape the choke the round would extend until

A.Shields tapped out or went to sleep.

B.Shields was able to escape the submission.

After that the round would end.

I just hate to see a fighter land a submission only to see it stopped by the bell.
I can see a backlash from a strikers point of view on this when he is throwing flurries at the end of a round,but just thought I would throw it out their.





In terms of the fights, I thought the show gave a pretty good diversity of fighting styles and outcomes. I thought it was much better than the EXC show broadcasted last year... by a mile. I had no problem with the refs either.

One thing that I will criticize is the commentary. I never cared for Mauro. His voice is amazing, but he tends to get his facts mixed up. Shamrock was ok in terms of talking strategy, but I think a number of guys could take his place.

As for groin shots. I also think the inside leg kick, because of it's proximity to the groin causes more inadvertent groin shots because how easy it is to accidentally turn into the kick. Someone kicks you and twitch or react and all it takes is a little movement to turn into the kick. i.e. when checking a kick you turn your shin outward and thus your centre toward the kick. If your opponent is kicking with the same leg, but to the inner thigh, but you think it is to the outside, you end up opening your groin to the shot.

As for time extensions. I say no. fighters can be saved by the bell whether they are in a sub or taking a barrage of strikes. As much as it can be frustrating to watch, it would just add more subjectivity into the game.

Last edited 11/8/09 12:45PM server time by rush
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Post #6   11/8/09 12:44:35PM   

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I attended this event and yes the production sucks.
1) They played this cheap techno music in between fights. I like techno, but they must have got this techno mix from the bargain bin at Walmart. And once Fedor's russian music ended, they put the cheap techno back on. Also in the middle of Mayhem Miller's fight the damn cheap techno came back on briefly and then turned off again.
2) The ring girls didn't know when to sit down. So once the next round of a fight began, the girls would still be standing up there blocking the view.
3) The lack of an 8-sided ring (octagon) meant that even though I was seated at "center ice" (in this former hockey stadium), I still had a ring post in my direct line of view. Compound that problem with the fact that the camera men did not stand at the post (like in UFC) but stood beside the post. So now I have a fat camera man and a ring post eliminating a third of my field of view. Why? So that I could stare at the Rockstar energy drink ad placed vertically on the outside of the post. Like I couldn't already see Rockstar on the inside of the other post nor the big Rockstar in the middle of the mat?! Do you think I'm going to go out and buy Rockstar energy drinks now?! Thanks Rockstar for obstructing my view! I know Strikeforce can't change the shape of their ring, but the camera men can get out of the way!

Other than that it was a good night, and the stadium was packed full of Russian fans, I mean people were waving russian flags all over the place, everyone was wearing Fedor shirts with russian written on them, you heard people speaking russian while you waited in the line for beer, and you heard russian in the stall next to you in the bathroom!

Anyway I had fun, it was a good event.

Post #7   11/8/09 12:53:28PM   

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I loved Mayhems entrance, and agree that Jake Shields may be my least favorite fighter. Don't get me wrong, he has great skills, but he seemed more scared of Mayhem's strikes than when he fought Robbie Lawler. Fedor is a monster, but I would like to see him against Cain Velasquez or Shane Carwin, rather than Brett Rogers.

Post #8   11/8/09 4:54:32PM   

bojangalz

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I can't get on board with the idea of a time extension. The ref's have a heard enough time making the proper calls the way it is. The last thing that needs to be done is to change/expand their job discription when most of them perform inadiquately the way it is. Time extension's initiated by a ref would end in debate and disaster for sure.

On top of that there would be way too much gray area needed to define when a round extension is prudent. What stage of a "submission" attempt warrents an extension? What defines a "submission attempt?" How soon before the end of the round must the ref announce an extension?

But most importantly- why do submission fighters get an extension if they have a hold locked in? What about the strikers who are in the process of working someone into hamburger in the corner? Why wouln't they get extra time if it looks like they are close to a finish? What about wrestlers who are working a sick GnP. Why wouldn't they get an extension if it looks like they are close to a finish? And what would define "close to a finish" in the first place?

Like others have said; at that point why would you even bother with having rounds? I think the idea of time extensions is meant with good intentions, but there's just too many adverse effects of putting a rule such as that in place.

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Post #9   11/8/09 5:24:34PM   

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What I learned

Grimm impressed me more in this loss, then any of his wins.
As soon as it hit the ground I said fight was over, but i underestimated Grimm's ground game. Brett has a very bright future...

I like mayhem, but his entrance only hurts the image of MMA being a legit sport.

Jake shields doesnt really belong at 185, he may be able to hang and beat middle comp but against the top 5 MW he would have no chance. 170 is where he belongs

I Relearned,
Fedor always wins. About 5 minutes before each of his fights i get nervous thinking this is the fight where he loses, then in the fight, moments of close scares and bloody noses only heighten the fear of a fedor loss. But no matter what happens in a fedor fight, he always finds that W and I always seem to forget that.


Overall great night of fights...

Post #10   11/8/09 5:33:48PM   

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I also forgot to mention that when Soku came out he had fully taped up feet for better traction. But upon arriving at the ring he was told this wasn't allowed. So there they are, the Strikeforce staff trying to cut all of the tape off of his feet before he enters the ring. Meanwhile I guess CBS can't wait for this delay and they begin to announce Mousasi. Mousasi starts walking down the runway and I'm thinking I can't wait to see what happens when he gets to the cage and has to hang out with Soku while Soku tape is still being removed. Luckily the last piece of tape came off and they rushed Soku into the cage, almost immediately followed by Mousasi. I bet they had to keep the camera angles tight to hide this mess!

On a side note, Ben Rothwell was walking the stadium hallways signing autographs, Arlovski was also in the hallway but at a booth for a local radio station signing autographs and taking pictures. Clay Guida was sitting ringside and had a constant stream of people coming by him all night - he was very receptive to each of them. He even came up into the stands between fights and signed autographs and took pictures.

Post #11   11/8/09 5:37:38PM   

bojangalz

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As for my thoughts on the event... It was the first "major" MMA show I have attended so I don't have much of a basis for comparision but here are some of the things I noticed:

The prelims were stacked with local "talent" to draw in some extra fans and with the exception of the Jeff Curran and Marloes Coenen bouts the prelims were terrible. I understand that Strikeforce had a challenger's card the night before so resources were pretty leaned out; but wow I honestly felt like I could have shown up two hours late and not missed a thing. Also, I noticed that the commentary team was not even working voice over for the prelims. This to me seemed like a total waste. They were already sitting there, why not get to work. What would have happened if they strook gold one one of those fights? They woudn't have been able to replay it during the CBS feed which would have been an epic failure for sure. It seemed pretty lazy to me. It's pretty obvious that Strikeforce hasn't given much thought to DVD sales yet either which is a shame.

They were hit or miss on the entrances too. Werdum entered the cage without any real entrance and wasn't even announced on his way in. I'm sure the CBS feed didn't get running until Bigfoot was on his way to the cage. So they squandered the opportunity to introduce Werdum to the world on national TV; and he was the guy who eventually won the fight. He'll be a big part of Strikeforce's HW division for a while, and they completely dropped the ball here.

I also saw poor placement for the cameramen (next to the post as opposed to standing behind it). Thankfully it didn't impact my view, but it was a mistake that could have easily been corrected.

There were some other things that caught my eye last night that arn't coming to mind right now. I think it's fair to say that Strikeforce has a lot of "tightening-up" to do as they continue to progress. I think one things that we have to keep in mind is that this card was put together on less then two months notice and that 1/2 of Strikeforces production resources were half way across the country in Fresno for the Challenger's Series card. I still need to sit down an watch the broadcast. But given the unfolding of the main card bouts I'm guessing Strikeforce are very pleased with how everything turned out last night. It's obviously a step in the right direction; and a major step up from the garbage that CBS had on 12 months ago.

Hopefully last night serves as one of those shining moments for the sport and a good stepping stone for the promotion as time moves on.

*EDIT*

Forgot to mention... Gus Johnson is a douche. That is all.

Last edited 11/8/09 5:56PM server time by bojangalz
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Post #12   11/8/09 5:49:27PM   

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The idea of an extension isn't as far-fetched as it sounds. In most boxing commissions you cannot be saved by the bell--meaning you have to get up if you are knocked down prior to the end of the round and in wrestling or sub wrestling you are generally allowed to finish a move even if takes you out of bounds. I had a friend (intentionally) walk into the crowd to try and get the ref to break a triangle choke and the ref just let him fall down there and get tapped out.

But this is done at the expense of subjectivity and in MMA even which types of moves it applied to would be subjective--do you need to escape or finish an ankle lock? a side choke while holding half guard? Ground and pound from a crucifix? Too many questions and too many calls to make. The fighters, fans and referee all understand the concept of a bell at 5:00.

Post #13   11/8/09 5:53:17PM